caz963 | (no subject)

Ever been turned on by writing any specific passage?

*kicks hormones*

Bwahahah!!

But honestly? I don't think so. I know we've talked about this before, but I think I'm so concerned about getting the right words and the right progressions and rhythms (yes, really!) that I can't tell whether the smut works or is hot until someone else reads it and tells me! There have been times when I've read something I've written and thought "damn - did I write that?? - once I've forgotten it sufficiently to be able to read it as a "reader" rather than as someone trying to get the sentences to work properly.

But mostly writing smut makes me giggle at the sheer absurdity of what I'm doing! And I'm in good company - one of the first things Brad said on Sunday was that sex is funny :-) (To which Fenny helpfully pointed out that if it's not, you're not doing it right! I said we were full of the snark!)

Are you bored, too? *g*

Which story (of yours) is your favorite? Least favorite?

I've enjoyed your fics a lot, but - in general - why do you feel the need to take some perfectly nice fics and end them with a bunch of smut on the end that really doesn't add anything to the story being told in the fic?

Not that I'm opposed to smut, but I feel some of your stories should have simply faded out on a kiss...

I'm curious as to whether this comment was posted anonymously intentionally or whether someone logged out accidentally?

I was merely quoting Billy Bragg, which seemed like the right thing to do in the circumstances.

OK, not a question, just a statement. If I miss my train in the morning, it's all your fault for posting that link and making me read all your fic again!

I'm gonna be a total wazzock anyway - I'm off my skull on caffeine from painkillers and can't sleep. Plus ya know, the pain thing.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course... but I personally think it does add to the story. It's not like they just have a roll in the hay between meetings without any apparent reason. There's a progression which, I feel, Caz writes to completion and sometimes one of the steps on the way is smut (which some of us quite enjoy, hence our reading stories labeled NC-17).

Of course, that's just my opinion. :D

Actually, I've often wondered this about everyone who writes smut and since you're offering to answer anything...

To what degree are your own... ahem... preferences in activities and such reflected in your fics?

(I'm not looking for filthy details here. A general statment ["Very much" or "Not at all" or what-have-you] will do. Or a line graph.)

Seconded.

Or a line graph

OK, somebody *please* tell me that I'm not the only one who read this and immediately thought I'm going to draw a chart for her with lines and arrows, clearly indicating that she answers to me and she answers to Toby.

It is my opinion. It isn't a slur against her writing, which I do enjoy, nor is it a slur againgt NC17 or smutfics, which I also enjoy. I was simply curious because there are a handful of her fics I feel have somewhat gratuitous smut bits tacked onto the end which weren't necessary. Again, just my opinion.

This was also simply a question which everyone, I believe, was invited to ask. About anything, not only fluffy or silly things, nor only about highly complimentary things. If that was the unspoken implication of being asked "about absolutely anything" and not "hold(ing) back" then I apologize for the faux pas and retract my question.

Hee! I didn't see it then but I certainly do now. Maybe it's all taken root in my brain to the point where I'm unconsciously sending out subliminal messages?

Oh, no.. don't retract! I didn't mean to run you off at all! I was just replying to your comment - certainly, I didn't mean to come across as trying to invalidate your position. I was merely stating mine. As we've both said, everyone is entitled to their say.

Ask anything you want - that is the point and I hope I didn't imply otherwise.

Yeah except Josh would so totally delegate that job to Donna and we're right back to smut again.

I think we have an answer.

OK, somebody *please* tell me that I'm not the only one

Demented fangirls unite!

I think my question may have gotten lost in the smut debate (that was posted by a different anonymous). Which of your stories is your favorite? Least favorite?
Also I thought of another question: For you, is it easier to write the narration (setting, situation, etc) or the dialog?

You know, this is a question I really didn't expect! Because I'm not a fan of those fics where the smut is posted in a separate chapter so that people can skip it if they're so inclined (there's one writer who does this in practically every fic they write).

Of course, all smut is gratuitious to a point, but when I write it, I really do try to have it be part of the story. But of course there are some fics where the whole point is the sex - things I've written for

bubbleficathon or

dooooooom for example, where if I hadn't written smut, I'd have been drummed out of the brownies!

And there are some occasions when I've just felt like writing some! :-)

I can actually only think of one fic I've written which could possibly be described as having smut "tacked on" (which was the last one in the Evolution series) but even then, I ended up following that with Josh and Donna making plans for the future and him asking her to move in with him!

I've often said that I seem unable (for the most part) to write "just" smut, and by that I mean without all the "relationship" stuff being part of it too - because I can't see that sex between Josh and Donna, in whatever context would ever be "just" sex. They're too screwed up and complicated (and crazy about each other) for that.

If you feel so inclined, I'd be interested in knowing which of the fics you've read you think should have been smut-free.

You spotted that, huh?

Hm. I was saying to

coloneljack the other day that there are some fics where I think I definitely "upped" my game and stepped on to the next rung of the ladder, so to speak, in terms of my actual writing ability, if that makes sense.

So I guess those are fics that I'm most proud of, but as to favourites... I admit I'm rather partial to Keeping the Spirit (http://caz963.livejournal.com/117207.html) which was last year's Christmas extravaganza, and also to Uncertain Horizons (http://caz963.livejournal.com/82749.html).

As to least favourite... I guess I'm a bit "meh" about The Result of Evolution (http://caz963.livejournal.com/62362.html). Not that I think it's a bad fic, I just remember having trouble with it at various points (although I think I was probably writing about three other fics at the same time!) and so it tends to stick out in my memory because of that.

As to which I find easier... generally it's the dialogue. I know I've said before that I hear the characters in my head - which sounds pretentious, but I do! I can be ironing or driving to work and find myself having a whole conversation with myself as Josh and Donna or whoever and then have to write it down! When I write fics now, I often find that the dialogue comes spewing out fast so I have to get that down and then go back and sort out all the settings and other details later.

Having said that though, in those fics where there isn't a lot of dialogue, where there's more introspection and internalisation, for the most part that comes fairly easily, too. I just find that sometimes I get stuck on one particular word or sentence and will then agonise for ages over getting it just right! At which point I wail to

coloneljack and

zinke (and anyone else that will listen) for help!

I'm probably going to regret asking this - but do you have a favourite? :-)

I think it was. And he seemed to appreciate it!

Hehehee! It's not as though that's not a question I've asked myself from time to time! I won't get graphic or provide the chart with lines and arrows - but I'm a forty-something twice-married mother of two. So I've had sex (!) I know what goes where and what it feels like - and I hope that comes across, because I'm sure we've all read smut that reads as though the person writing it hasn't a clue.

And yes - there are certain things that "Donna" likes in bed that I like. And I'll stop there :-)

And there's another t-shirt!!

And that's a bad thing? *g*

If you're the "anon" that posted this question further down the thread, I've answered it there :) If you're a different person, then I apologise, and direct you here (http://caz963.livejournal.com/152155.html?thread=1966171#t1966171).

Seriously? I should start a business.

And don't I love him all the more for it ;-)

I was thinking of doing a Demented Fangirls International t-shirt with a set of tour dates on the back. So when will you be in Stratford, Bath & London???

Yes, I suspected as much. Of course, your stuff is rather tame compared to some things I've read - by which I mean, I think most of what "Donna" likes in your fics, the average person would also enjoy (especially considering with whom she's... okay, must not follow that train of thought at work - besides which, it's unnecessary to write out as you all went there on your own anyway).

The question arose because I've read the odd thing where something is done or suggested or whatever that strikes me as... well, not always completely unsexy (although in some cases... just, no - that is not good) but perhaps not my cup of tea. And I find myself jolted out of the fic while I wonder whether the author finds that hot in their sex life.

And yes, there does seem to be a lot of really awful smut!fic written by people who have no idea what anything feels/tastes/smells like. And let's not even get into some suggested positions that are, quite frankly, anatomical impossibilites. But then again, some of those stories are incredibly funny, so there is some entertainment value, just probably not of the sort that the author had originally intended.

I was kind of surprised you were so meh about The Result of Evolution because if I had to choose (which happily I don't) I would have chosen the whole Evolution package. I also liked some of the more comedic stories like Lady Godiva and Myths and Misconceptions.

Thought of something else...

Which fic is closest to its original draft? Which has undergone the most rewrites and why?

it's unnecessary to write out as you all went there on your own anyway.

Yep :-)

I wonder whether the author finds that hot in their sex life.

I can't say I've asked myself that question as such, but there have definitely been times when I've thought - ick. But each to their own, I guess.

And let's not even get into some suggested positions that are, quite frankly, anatomical impossibilites. Yes. We know Brad's pretty bendy, but somehow I don't think that's what inspires it!

And I'm sure I've said this before, but what really drives me nuts is when J&D are up against the wall one minute and in bed the next, or when the writer has forgotten to get Donna's knickers off! There is definitely entertainment value in bad smut. And I'm constantly aware that there's a very fine line between getting it right and getting it wrong. I hope to God someone will tell me if I ever go there...

The second part of that is easy - I think it has to be The Theory of Evolution (http://caz963.livejournal.com/51557.html).
It's a fic I'm quite pleased with, as I think it represents one of those "steps up" for me as a writer that I talked about further upthread. On the other hand, I did agonise about it and work on it a lot - and the reason is, I think, that it's one of those fics where I had to have Josh and Donna communicating without either saying what they meant or saying anything at all! And given the medium, that's very difficult! I mean how the hell do you write down what people don't say?!

As for the first question. Being completely honest, I've rarely had to do really major re-writes. And I know that sounds incredibly conceited, but I'm trying to just be honest. I'm sure

coloneljack will correct me if I'm wrong, because she's beta'd practically everything I've written, but I think Number Eighteen (http://caz963.livejournal.com/127717.html) came out pretty much as I posted it, as did Changing Horizons (http://caz963.livejournal.com/143279.html) and some of the smaller fics like Syntactical Pedantry (http://caz963.livejournal.com/138491.html") and Carrying the Card (http://caz963.livejournal.com/113393.html). I think I changed two words in Flirting with Disaster (http://caz963.livejournal.com/100742.html) (which was a short, S60 dialogue fic). Oh, same with that daft WW/S60 crossover I wrote, Light Friday Nights (http://caz963.livejournal.com/93432.html).

That's interesting though, because it just shows how my conceptions differ from readers'. Result was just one of those rare times when a fic didn't come that easily to me, which probably colours my view of it.

I admit I'm quite fond of Lady Godiva, too. It was the first time I'd ever entered a ficathon, so I was rather nervous about making the deadline. And the day I got my prompt, my head emptied and I started panicking about what on earth I was going to do! But the next day, I had the idea about Donna getting locked out, and then the part about her banging her head on the cabinet under the sink etc, etc and then it just poured out!

I admit, (if you haven't noticed!) that I enjoy bringing the funny. Although I like the introspection and character exploration, too -even though I am usually to be found wailing why did I ever start this? and generally beating myself up over it.

Thanks for asking :)

Demented Fangirls - The Reunion Tour would also be a good one! ;-)

I don't mean to just jump in here but you asked "how the hell do you write down what people don't say?"
As a reader, I've found that when a writer captures the characters and writes them very true to what I'm used to watching (frame by frame on DVD at times) it is very easy for me to get what you are trying to convey without writing it down. I think there are a handful of writers who understand and write the characters that well and I'm pretty sure they are all involved in this discussion so to you all THANK YOU.
BTW I also loved the one with Donna and the vibrating panties, I can't believe I forgot to tell you that.

Oh, I don't mind your jumping in at all - the more the merrier!

I agree with that you say about the writing of the things unsaid - although of course that does rely on the reader to an extent; to trust that they see and understand that characters in the same way. But then I guess anyone who reads my stuff and doesn't like it won't like it because they don't see them in the same way. And if I was being really ~~bitchy~~ self-aggrandising, I'd say that's because they're wrong and they need to stand there in their wrongness and be wrong! *g*

Anyway - thanks for the kind words; and never feel awkward about contributing to a discussion - I'm all for it!

Well I'm just going to consider myself an elitist, Yankee, jackass fic reader and join you in mocking those who have to stand there in their wrongness and be wrong, because clearly they don't know what they are missing and the show most likely went over their moomoo wearing, chain smoking, closed little pointy heads.

Hee!

coloneljack often says she's a fic-snob, but I don't think wanting to read fic where the characters are ones we recognise makes us snobs. It just makes us discerning readers!

It's not being a fic snob at all - in fact, it's being respectful and tolerant of the rights of others to write fic that doesn't mesh with our interpretation of the show.

I fully agree that there are some great writers out there (and in here) but what I like best about the people that I've talked to in this fandom are those of you who can disagree with a character interpretation, pairing, plausibility of plot and so on but either keep your disapproval respectful (or at least mock in private) or simply choose not to read the fic rather than feeling some overwhelming need to convince the author of their mistake.

And I'm not talking about people who just didn't like something as much as the last fic or think maybe it would have been better if... blah blah blah concrit... and say so respectfully. I'm talking about public mocking. I'm talking about people who absolutely can't stand, I dunno, Toby/Margaret fic and then go read it just so they can tell the author that he or she is off their rocker.

That was a weird little mini-rant that came out of nowhere. I need coffee...

Well, I've never told an author they're off their rocker. Well not publicly :-) I have been asked to beta fics which I've had to send back and say - nicely - that I can't work on because the author's view of the characters is so diametrically opposed to my own that it just won't work.

But anything posted - that's fair game, and I will admit to, on occasion, having read badfic so that I can mock. Not that I have the time to do that a lot these days, so I rely on others to point me in the direction of the entertainment! ;-)

And this gives me another opportunity to dust off one of my favourite icons...

Yes, but you don't go and read it so you can post the mocking, right? I mean, having a fic bitch with one of us via email, IM or whatever is one thing but purposely going and making fun of an author on their own site is just mean. Because, really... some of them just can't help that they suck ;-).

No, they can't help it, but they should just shut the hell up!

And no, mocking takes place in private or in locked threads :)

I don't really care whether they shut the hell up or whether each of them continues writing garbage to his or her heart's content.

I guess that means that I am an elitist but I have respect for those who don't measure up. Or, at least, I respect their right to suck out loud as long as I don't have to bear witness.