caz963: (eleven TPO)
caz963 ([personal profile] caz963) wrote2011-05-29 10:44 pm

Why aren't more people ranting about this?



I am utterly stunned that, in NONE of the reviews I've so far read of last night's DW (the off LJ ones) does anyone say how inappropriate and conpletely squicky the pregnancy plot-line is.

Now, I'm not normally one to cry "sexism" - in fact, I'm usually pretty much on the fence about things like that, as in the end, a lot of it comes down to personal perception and feelings about a particular issue. I've also (mostly) steered clear of the whole "Moffat is a sexist bastard" issue, becuase I recognise that perhaps some of his comments have been taken out of context and because I don't know enough about the man to be able to make that sort of a judgement.

But now... I'm going to do it. And I'm not just directing it at Moffat, I'm going out on a limb to theorise that most of those reviews were written by men, too. The debate appears to be about the Doctor's motives and ethics in "decomissioning" ganger!Amy, which I thought was explained in the episode (she was made from a different version of the Flesh and therefore functioned in a different way - she wasn't sentient in the way the gangers we met in the story were; rather she was more like a walking shell that had a psychic link to real!Amy and not a completely integrated copy).

But nowhere - so far - outside of LJ have I seen anyone discussing the fact that here we have a major female character who is restrained, imprisoned and terrified - all while about to give birth. Is the pregnancy even consentual? It seems that, until she looks down and sees the bump, Amy isn't even aware that she IS pregnant. Was she kidnapped and inseminated against her will and without her knowledge? I know that some are theorising that it's Rory's baby but that it has somehow been affected by the timey-wimeyness of the TARDIS - but we were told in the DWC that Amy hasn't been real!Amy since 6x01 and possibly earlier, so I'm not sure it can be Rory's.

But that's all beside the point.

The point is this. In a comment to my review yesterday, [livejournal.com profile] papilio_luna says this:

bringing pregnancy into it, it's like a bridge just too far for me, especially when the episodes are written by men. Being pregnant is something that only happens to women, and for a dude to turn that into a horror scenario is something I've always had a problem with

- and I agree, 100%. There's something extremely unsavoury about it that's leaving a very bad taste in my mouth indeed.

I'm not a Moffat hater. While I'm not his biggest fan, and I preferred DW under Rusty, I've always taken care to be fair in my reviews and comments. But I don't know if I'm ever going to feel the same way about my show after this.

Two interesting comments from the Guardian's DW blog :

The problem I have is that, by this time, I don't remember all the unexplained questions from episode 1 - because they haven't been kept fresh, just parked for a few weeks. I can't remember exactly what happened in the White House bathroom, or just what happened at the end of episode 1, not really do I care by this time.

This is a mystery designed for diehard fans. It's telling those of us who just turn in every week for an interesting, entertaining family show that we're not wanted - as some of the negative comments directed at "casual viewers" in these blogs testify.

The mystery is, I presume clever - Moffat is a clever writer. But turning Dr Who into a memory test isn't.


and -

it's all a bit much for everyone who doesn't enjoy having to put that much effort into Saturday night entertainment.

I look back on the Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant episodes with wistful nostalgia - good entertainment but not necessitating sustaining a photographic memory of each moment in each episode throughout the entire series (and into future series).

Mr Moffat clearly enjoys changing Doctor Who in the way he has, and he's clearly creating enjoyment for a small tribe of like-minded people, but he may just be writing himself into a shark-jump from which it will be difficult to recover.


I, too, look back with a sense of nostalgia - to the days when the plot made sense as I was watching it.
hooloovoo_42: (Jack - What!)

[personal profile] hooloovoo_42 2011-05-29 10:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, he's lost me. I've probably missed as many as I've seen this season. I'd rather watch cheerleading than DW these days.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-29 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd say that the only "must see" so far this series is Neil Gaiman's episode which could be enjoyed and understood all on it's own.

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[identity profile] solitary-summer.livejournal.com 2011-05-29 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree. I only just watched it, and although I was completely spoiled for the episode and knew what to expect, I still found the end massively disturbing.

Actually, I find the whole Amy/Doctor relationship increasingly disturbing. I guess this is a minor thing in comparison to the pregnancy arc, but since the Doctor and the ganger!Doctor are the same, I guess it doesn't matter which of them completely snapped, shoved her against the wall and yelled at her? Amy's initial instinctive reaction, telling him to keep away from her, was the right one, so why is she suddenly hugging him again when there's every possibility that that was the 'real' Doctor, who also put her through some sort of experiment without her knowledge? (BTW, did I miss something, or what exactly was it he had to learn about the flesh through her eyes?)

(Also, hypothetically speaking, wouldn't it have been better to keep the link active a while longer, so that they could at least explain to Amy what was happening to her and talk her through it, rather than force her to suddenly wake up in a completely terrifying situation and environment? I'm guessing that if she had to go through this, it might have helped to have Rory there with her? Why (except of course for the final plot twist to work) was it so absolutely necessary to cut the link right then?)

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-29 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I thought the yelling was him letting off a bit of steam becuase he's known all along that she's a copy - also, it was part of his plan to get clone!Amy to give free reign to her prejudices, wasn't it?

The plot twist could have worked without cutting the link - Moffat just wanted the sensationalism of the visual of Eleven "killing" his companion. See, that I can handle. Possibly because there was an (admittedly brief) explanation given for it, and possibly because I don't care about Amy all that much.

But the idea of using a baby as a plot point sickens me.

[identity profile] papilio-luna.livejournal.com 2011-05-29 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I think this is going to be a "Is it just me? ...ooookay apparently it is just me." situation for me. Well, clearly it's not just me, but being wholly skeeved out and turned off seems to be the minority reaction.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-29 11:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. It seems we're in the minority which really surprises me. But then, I stand by what I've said about the majority of the reviewers being blokes who just don't get it.

I really and truly don't make such sweeping generalisations as a rule. It just shows how much this has got to me.

[identity profile] crossoverman.livejournal.com 2011-05-29 11:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not going to get outraged until I get more information from the story.

It's not an excuse, but alien pregnancy is a bit of a sci fi trope that I find interesting and wonder what Moffat is going to do with it. I'm not sure "women can only get pregnant" = "alien pregnancy stories are always misogynistic" or the notion that because a guy is writing it that it somehow makes the story worse or more misogynistic. Also, I'm willing to bet Moffat doesn't think that kidnapping Amy and making her pregnant with (presumably) the Doctor's baby to regrow TimeLords is a good thing.

I guess there's a good argument to be made that this isn't particularly Family Friendly, but I don't watch with that in mind, so I'm not so worried about that. But I certainly understand why people with kids who watch it might be upset.
kilodalton: (Default)

[personal profile] kilodalton 2011-05-30 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
"alien pregnancy stories are always misogynistic or the notion that because a guy is writing it that it somehow makes the story worse or more misogynistic."

To be fair, that's not what the person caz963 was quoting said: she said that turning it into a *horror* story has misogyny. It's perfectly feasible to do an alien pregnancy story where the heroine/victim turns the tables - this happened in Torchwood, when Gwen Cooper got spontaneously "impregnated" by an alien bite wound and then foiled the alien plot. That episode ended up being empowering, not .... franctic surprised pregnant girl screaming in horror because, after all, that's what women do. I believe the OP meant it in that context.

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[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
willing to bet Moffat doesn't think that kidnapping Amy and making her pregnant with (presumably) the Doctor's baby to regrow TimeLords is a good thing.

I'm sure he doesn't. But my point is more to do with the fact that those final images of Amy, restrained and terrified and about to "pop" were truly disturbing. I'd have found them disturbing in a post-watershed show because of course they're meant to be disturbing, but I could accept it more in Torchood or Fringe or whatever show for grown-ups it was in. That said though, I'm not just banging on about the images being unsuitable for a family show (and they were) it's that the entire concept (as I read it so far) is unsuitable. To me, Amy's reaction showed that she had no idea she was even pregnant, let alone in labour - but then to discover that she's somewhere strange and unfamiliar and about to go through a traumatic experience under normal circumstances... it makes me feel sick to even contemplate - and as you know I do't even like her very much!

Hiding behind the sofa from Daleks and Cybermen and Weeping Angels is fine - kids know deep down that those are fictional and that they're never going to come across them in real life. But nine, ten, eleven year-old kids know where babies come from, and I was actually in two minds as to whether to let my eleven year old daughter watch it because of the ending.

Believe me, I'm usually the first person to say "if you don't like it, there's an off-switch", but DW is and always has been a family show and as such, I shouldn't have to worry about there being things in it that I'm not happy for my kids to see. Not that I had any choice on the first showing because there was no warning - Amy was just there, alone, terrified and pregnant.

And then there's the whole argument as to whether the pregnancy is consensual or not. I know we don't know about that yet and I'm really hoping it's not going to turn out that she's been inseminated against her will - but if the baby is Rory's. why is it so special? Has it been altered in some way? - which may be an even worse twist.

I very VERY rarely get this worked up about something I've seen on telly. I'm tolerant of most things and I use my off-switch when needed. I'm not a prude and I'm not saying that just because something's never been done before in DW that it's a reason never to do it. In fact, I'm quite surprised at my reaction because I'm not one to go ga-ga over babies in general, or to cry "sexism" - but this one has really struck a nerve.


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[personal profile] kilodalton 2011-05-30 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
... completely agreed with everything you've written. It is squicky in the extreme. You know my feeling on Moffat, so I lump it into the pile of "little things that speak volumes". Cannot wait til he's out.
annissamazing: Ten's red Chucks (Default)

[personal profile] annissamazing 2011-05-30 03:13 am (UTC)(link)
I stopped reading when I realized what you were talking about. It's possible more people aren't ranting about it because it hasn't aired in the US yet? Maybe somebody's already mentioned that. Sorry for commenting on something I haven't read. I'm mad at BBCAmerica for falling a week behind. :(

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
That's okay. I knew it wasn't going out in the US until next week, but I assumed that would just mean that people went back to their normal alternative methods of acquiring it! Please feel free to come back once you've seen it.

[identity profile] sensiblecat.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Convenient, that...they can monitor what the fans are saying on the Internet and then tweak it for the American audience if they decide it's crossed a line.

Conspiracy theorist, moi?

[identity profile] seri-scribble.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
Being pregnant is something that only happens to women

Erm... There have been pregnant men. Uterus + ability to have children does not equal "women".

and for a dude to turn that into a horror scenario is something I've always had a problem with

He's not turning pregnancy into a horror scenario, he's turning this:

we have a major female character who is restrained, imprisoned and terrified - all while about to give birth. Is the pregnancy even consentual? It seems that, until she looks down and sees the bump, Amy isn't even aware that she IS pregnant. Was she kidnapped and inseminated against her will and without her knowledge?

into a horror scenario. And all of that imprisonment, lack of consent, lack even basic AWARENESS of the pregnancy IS completely horrifying. It's supposed to be squicky. It's supposed to upset the viewer.

hooloovoo_42: (Cheat)

[personal profile] hooloovoo_42 2011-05-30 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
At 7pm on a Saturday night in a family show? Yeah, like that's going to happen in Boy Meets World! This *is* a family show. It's the show that everyone my age grew up with and is bringing their kids up to watch. There's a difference between hiding behind the cushion because of scary Daleks or Cybermen or Autons or icky maggots that squirt green goo and non-con alien impregnation.

But we'll leave that for the BBC, who seem to think that gang violence at 7.30pm is perfectly acceptable on Eastenders, but can't possibly show Alien uncut at 11.30pm.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Pregnant men? Excuse my ignorance because I didn't know that was possible.

But okay, can we say instead that it''s something that NORMALLY only happens to women?

I get that it's supposed to be upsetting. I just don't think that DW is the right place for it. I know that the show is perceived differently in the US - am I right in saying that it goes out in a later, more adult-oriented timeslot? But here, it is and always has been a family show, and while kids might hide behind the sofa from Daleks or Cybermen, this scenario is on a whole different level to that. Kids know, deep down that Daleks aren't real, but they know that babies are real and the older ones know where they come from. I didn't have the same problem with the recent baby plotline in Fringe (even though that was squicky and meant to be) or in Torchwood, or countless other shows where it's been used. But to have something THAT horrifying in DW just isn't age-appropriate IMO.

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[identity profile] lemony69.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 06:46 am (UTC)(link)
I think the reason why there aren't more people bothered by the pregnancy story-line is because they are distracted by the shiny, clever mystery. It's not about Amy and the terrifying experience she's going through. It's about finding out when Amy was kidnapped and whose child she's about to give birth. Who is the father of the child? Who is the child? Is it the child we saw at the end of episode 1? Is it River? Is Rose coming back? Just kidding, but you get my drift. I don't mind a good mystery but I'm annoyed to no end how the characters are used.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
think the reason why there aren't more people bothered by the pregnancy story-line is because they are distracted by the shiny, clever mystery

THANK YOU! That's it exactly.

I, too, like a good story and a few good plot-twists, but I'm just stunned that so few people appear to have a problem with this. However it turns out, regardless of whether the baby is Rory's or not - there's no avoiding the fact that Amy has woken up about to "pop", with possibly no knowledge of being pregnant at all, alone and in strange surroundings. Giving birth can be a traumatic enough experience at the best of times (I know from personal experience!) and putting the character in that situation is just horrible,

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[identity profile] vervet-monkey.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 09:17 am (UTC)(link)
I, personally, don't find the idea of Amy being pregnant and trapped abhorrent or sexist. She's proved herself multiple times to be capable and strong, so I feel no need to define her purely on this new plot twist.

My opinion on said plot twist is waiting until next week however. Sci-fi and pregnancy rarely work together well (See Joss Whedon for some awful examples), so I'm not holding out much hope. Although right now I see no reason to suppose rape/weird alien insemination. It could be Rory's conceived before she was captured, altered by the huge crack running through her life. (Admittedly it's unlikely to be Rory's because, well, that's what I want, but I can hope right?)

I like the over arching story and the questions. But that's because I'm a huge geek and watch each episode 3 times over before the next week, and then again on DVD. I'm rewatching Buffy right now and still picking up on things. But I do often sit watching Who wondering what the kids watching get out of it, when my head can't even keep up. (I thought that on EoT too tbh, but more with Moff)

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 08:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not defining her - I'm saying that I don't think the final images of her, heavily pregnant, alone and terrified were appropriate for the time slot and target audience. Even if it turns out that the baby is Rory's and there was no violation (although if it's Rory's why is it so special?), that still doesn't excuse how we last saw her.

I like a good story and plot twists - and I have fun reading others' thoughts and taking part in discussions about what the hell is going on. But there has to be a decent pay-off and I've yet to be convinced that Moffat can deliver that. The Big Bang was a damp squib as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem with the fact that certain plot threads were left for this year - it's that what we got was a cop-out that didn't make a lot of sense.

My kids - 11 and 8 - had a hard time following these last two episodes. If I hadn't read the previews and spoilers here, I think I'd have had problems, too. And all they wanted to know in ep 6 was which Doctor was the "real" one. I tried to tell them that it didn't matter becasue they were both the same, but that wouldn't wash. I think it's great that we have these philosophical/ethical/moral issues in DW, but sometimes those complexities go over the kids' heads. And if (as here) that's what the plot hinges upon, then you're asking for trouble, IMO.

[identity profile] zinke.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 01:42 pm (UTC)(link)
There was a marathon on BBA here earlier this weekend so I finally got to catch up on the end of series 5 and series six. And five was entertaining - I still prefer Rusty's version of DW but will admit some of the series 5 stories were good. But series six...I found myself just not caring. And my initial reaction to the pregnancy things was 'ugh' - why bring that sort of factor into a show like this? It's too much. And now, reading the reactions to the next episode (which hasn't aired here yet) I'm even less impressed.

I may have to pop 'The Doctor Dances' into the DVD player today. Ah, simpler times.

[identity profile] sensiblecat.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 01:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I think it will be very interesting to see what hits the Radio Times Letters Page in a couple of weeks' time. It's not that difficult to get a letter published. I once won a digital radio that way. But what's holding a lot of us back is that we don't want people to call us Mary Whitehouse, and the debate over DW not being a family show has raged before.

I'm with you, I think a line was crossed. And it's not good enough if SM says his kids were all right about it. They have him to explain what's going on. I don't think it's any coincidence that you, like me, work in education. I work with five and six year olds who think the Doctor is awesome, and their parents are okay about that because he doesn't use violence. And now they see him killing a companion. RIght now, I'm not interested in whether she's real, or sentient, or human. She's all those things to a six year old. And what they did was wrong.

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[identity profile] topaz-eyes.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 04:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I wish I could be surprised Moffat's gone this route. Moffat's sexism has always been there in DW, but as [livejournal.com profile] lemony69 says, many viewers haven't noticed because of the cleverness. You're right, one isolated instance can simply be a matter of perception. It's the overall pattern that determines whether a work is sexist.

There's the continuing issue of female characters defining themselves by the males in their lives: Amy defines herself by the Doctor and by Rory in S5; River apparently defines herself by the Doctor in S6. There's not only the pregnancy issue (which essentially reduces Amy to her womb, because the season plot is driven by "who/what is this baby?"), but also the woman-in-a-freezer trope which defines Abigail, River and now Amy as well. It really is upsetting. Yet fans continue to apologize for Moffat. That is what amazes me more.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you and [livejournal.com profile] lemony69 are spot on about the majority of people being distracted by the cleverness. And for me, even if the baby turns out to be Rory's (although if it is, why is it so special?) or the story diverts off in some other way in which that turns out not to have been Amy at all, or something along those lines, it still doesn't excuse those really disturbing images. If I'm watching something late at night then I know there might be things in it that I may not want to see, but this was at just before 7.30pm on a Saturday evening, and I couldn't have avoided it if I'd wanted to. My girls have both seen the episode, and fortunately dont' seem to have been too upset by the ending, although I did have serious reservations about letting my eldest (going on twelve) see it (she was out at a friend's when it aired). I haven't asked them what they thought about it yet.

fans continue to apologize for Moffat

*nods* Not that I was expecting any different - there have always been the Moffat apologists for whom he can do no wrong (or who won't admit that he can) but I really thought there'd be more of an outcry about the direction this has taken.
Edited 2011-05-30 21:48 (UTC)

[identity profile] teresadivicenzo.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I will say first up that I haven't watched DW this series because I wanted to store them up for the summer when I'm less busy.

But what I don't get is why you just can't say that you feel uncomfortable about something that is clearly bordering on the horror genre being incorporated into a tea-time family show. That you'd find it uncomfortable viewing at *any* time and appreciate that it's meant to be - but that you have a very real issue with it being on early in the evening on a show that seems to have moved on somewhat in it's direction from what we grew up with. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of personal taste and what we individually want the show to be. It's a debate about what should DW be as a show.

Given that fandom is prone to throwing out mpreg, twincest, rape, and goodness only knows what else via fanfic - and I completely appreciate you wouldn't particularly care for all that either - I do find it a bit comical when fandom starts complaining about what's on our screens.

I was chatting with mum about this earlier - she has seen all the eps - and it went a bit like this --

"Did it offend you?"
"No. But it's difficult to watch."
"Would you have wanted me, when I was little, to watch it?"
"Not at age 5 when you started. I'd have worried you would have been too upset by it and not understood any of it. By the time you're 10 or 12 then maybe, yes"
"So is it the whole pregnancy thing? Did you find it sexist?"
"It's not that - it's just that it's DW having grown up - it's got complicated writing now that a younger child just won't get and, yes, it was disturbing. There's nothing wrong with that, but if the show has moved on then I think I'd think again about whether it was family viewing or something I'd rather let you watch when you were more able to deal with it."

Now, I suspect that when I do watch, I may well agree with her. Writers will use pregnancy in horror stories - there's not much they can do about the fact that women are the ones who get pregnant (unless they go the route of a lot of the fanfic writers and I suspect most viewers would find that *more* disturbing and difficult to explain to their 5 year-olds) - and it's really a question of "Where is this show going with content and am I comfortable in moving along with that and wanting my kids to grow up with it?"

I don't mind complex - but that's obviously aimed at the adult viewers. The trouble is, is there enough left for the kids to enjoy? It's possible SM has taken it too far and if kids watching it don't get it, or need too much explained to them, then the show isn't family viewing anymore.

I'd be sad if that's the case given that I grew up as a child watching it, but I'm not inherently opposed to shows evolving either.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-30 10:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not inherently opposed to shows evolving

Neither am I - and let's face it, if there was ever a show with "change" built into it, then it's this one.

Like I've just said to [livejournal.com profile] crossoverman upthread, the key term you've both used in your comments is "horror". The scene I'm talking about went out at just before 7.30 pm in a family show.

You know, I think that a five year old would possibly have been less bothered by that scene than a twelve-year-old because the latter would have been able to understand more about what was going on and some of the implications of what they were seeing. I was actually uneasy about letting Cazlet #1 watch it (she was out when it aired) - but I did and she's okay even though she thought it "wasn't very nice". But I can imagine that other girls of her age and perhaps a bit older would have been quite disturbed,

But what I don't get is why you just can't say that you feel uncomfortable about something that is clearly bordering on the horror genre being incorporated into a tea-time family show. That you'd find it uncomfortable viewing at *any* time and appreciate that it's meant to be - but that you have a very real issue with it being on early in the evening

That is the case - I do think it wasn't age appropriate. But it's not just that, and that's what I'm having a hard time trying to work out. Fringe had a pregnancy storyline this season which took a turn for the squicky - and while I was squicked, I was meant to be and I was okay with that. I've seen plenty of telly/films which have employed this plotline - and if I was uncomfortable it was always because I was meant to be, and I was okay with that, too.

It's a debate about what should DW be as a show.

*nods* And as you know, it's a debate that's been raging for years. At the end of the day, right now, it's whatever the showrunner says it is. And the showrunner is someone who is known for wanting to bring it "back to kids". (I know SM hasn't said that directly, but when you listen to him or read what he's said, he's keen to emphasis the fairytale and magical elements and talks about what appeals to kids) - yet that stance is at odds with what I watched on Saturday night.

there enough left for the kids to enjoy?

Another question I was asking myself because all my two wanted to know was "which is the REAL Doctor?" through that last episode, and no amount of my telling them that it didn't matter because they were both the same would satisfy them. And had I not read previews or seen clips, I'd have been hard pressed to work out what was going on at the start of TRF - and I had to explain it to the kids or they wouldn't have understood what was happening.

I know that RTD's DW got dark and addressed adult themes too - but I think he managed to strike a better balance than I'm seeing right now.

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(Anonymous) 2011-05-31 03:37 am (UTC)(link)
It's hard to even enjoy the show anymore without worrying that Moffat's going to reveal The Doctor and Amy having an adulterous affair all the time. Even if it was only once and the result is a baby it's still assanine. Out of all the time that the series has been with these characters it only happens AFTER Amy and Rory get married? Why waste all the time on Amy and Rory's relationship? Just so it can be extra sadistic when Rory finds out?

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-31 10:06 am (UTC)(link)
I really, really can't believe they'd go that route - mind you, I said that about the baby scenario - not when SM's spent all this time building up River as a romantic interest for the Doctor.

Before this week's episode, I'd have said that just wasn't in the DNA of DW - I don't really buy into the Doctor being asexual and I don't mind a bit of romance for him, but S.E.X has never been used in the show that blatantly, or as a plot device. BUT - as I said, until last ep, I was sure, deep in my gut that they wouldn't go the Rosemary's Baby route either, and I was wrong about that, so...

(If any Doctor was going to be the one going around shagging his companions, it would surely have been Ten, who was sex on legs and who couldn't help attracting that sort of attention from women!)
develish1: (Default)

[personal profile] develish1 2011-05-31 06:45 am (UTC)(link)
well you already know I'm as unhappy about the whole Amy arc as you are, and I too am rather amazed than no-one outside of lj seems bothered by it at all.

I most definitely agree with one bit of those reviews though, and that's the "I can't remember" and "nor do I care" because I really don't give a damn about his long complex plot arcs, I'm bored with the whole thing.

And it's making me miss Nine and Ten all the more.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-05-31 10:30 am (UTC)(link)
And the thing is, if you say that you're bored by the complex plots and just want to get ON with it, dammit, you're accused of being someone who wants instant gratification who is too stupid to be able to appreciate the subtle complexities of the writing.

But that's not it at all. It's a TV show, it's entertainment and I want to be able to be entertained and enjoy it without breaking my brain - that's all!

I watched some of the repeats on Watch the other day (with Ten) - I even sat through PotD, that's how badly I miss him!

(no subject)

[personal profile] develish1 - 2011-05-31 18:28 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] olsonm-raymond.livejournal.com 2011-06-05 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I just finished The Almost People. I haven't seen the next episode yet so maybe you're bored of this topic but speaking for myself I was very concerned about Amy's plight. After an interesting episode about the gangers and their humanity all I could think about was what had (apparently) happened to Amy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you were mostly worried about introducing this topic in this way on a family show. I'm not sure what my feelings about this are but I think you've made a strong case for it. I realized I hadn't even thought about this aspect after seeing the episode so thank you for bringing it up.

[identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com 2011-06-07 07:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Nah, I'm not bored. Frustrated, yes, annoyed sometimes, but not bored! Not yet, anyway :-)

Mostly, yes it was the idea of transmitting what I thought were rather disturbing images at just before 7.30pm. I get that we were meant to find the situation horrible and I'd have had no problem with that in a later slot.

I also don't like the fact of a pregnancy and/or child being used as a plot device, although given that this is Moffat, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by now, because that's his MO. His characters act according to the dictates of the plot rather than because that's how those characters would behave.

Added to that, I was really shocked to find that there hadn't been an outcry about those final images - which was when it occurred to me that the majority of the reviews I'd read were a)written by men, b)written by people who were too distracted by the shiny to notice or c) both.
I'm not normally one to generalise like that, and I'm certainly not one to cry "sexism" - even given that there are so many things that point to Moffat being somewhat that way inclined; but this was one occasion when it really got my goat!

Just in case you couldn't tell... *g*