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Interesting listening...
I was fascinated by this feature on the Today Programme this morning. (It needs RealPlayer to play - otherwise go to the radio 4 website - www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today).
Presented by G Money, it’s the first of two reports this week looking into what’s happening in the black community in South London in the wake of the recent speight of shootings and knife attacks.
It’s really interesting, how often the “lack of respect” amongst the young is mentioned; how there’s a feeling that today’s parents aren’t willing or able to parent their children properly.
The difference between today’s generation and the generation that myself … you come from is just one word. Respect. We grew up with respect. We respected our elders, we respected our parents; if we [were] on the road and we [were] playing the fool, playing the idiot… and I saw anybody who looked remotely like they might know my mum or dad, I was off. In today’s time? They’re not interested in that - and this speaker, a black, male social worker went on to say how if you challenge kids now, you’ll get a mouthful of abuse and be threatened with violence.
The same speaker also said this:
Now, you’re walking with your child and your child misbehaves and it is deemed, but another member of the public that you’re slapping your child too hard, you’re going to be seeing social services knocking at your door, police stopping you in the street, and they want to charge you for abusing your child… They seem to be taking all the rights of authority away from parents; they’re not putting anything else in place – who’s disciplining them? This is why we have a generation of young people who are running wild.
I’m not advocating violence towards children – although I could happily take a two by four to some of the toerags I have to deal with! – but as a parent, and given my line of work, and how bloody careful you have to be all the time about what you do and what you say, I’m doubly aware of the sort of thing this guy is talking about. And the kids themselves are incredibly aware of all the restrictions we operate under as teachers. For instance, I brushed against a girl's shoulder in the corridor at school the other day and she made a huge deal about it. I'd already walked on - I mean, it happens at lesson changeover or break when there are a lot of people around, right - but this girl was moaning at her friends until well after I was out of earshot! But I digress.
What particularly interested me about the report was the fact that most of what was said doesn’t just apply to the black community. I bet a similar survey of young white kids and people in similar jobs and situations to the other speakers featured would produce the same results.
ETA: I live and work in a predominantly white area - I have maybe half a dozen non-white kids in my classes - but I can definitely say that, from what I've seen, the things these guys were saying about the black community in South London aren't just happening there; although of course the recent violence has escalated there to a terrible degree.
G Money said: Young people now no longer fear the parental authority that extended beyond the confines of the home they grew up in… The erosion of this respect has led to a lack of discipline amongst young people – and discipline is of crucial importance.
I’ve often wondered whether the problems talked about here – the lack of respect and discipline etc. – are real, or whether it’s just me, experiencing the generation gap from my advanced age(!). People of our parents’ and grandparents’ age complained about “the youth of today” in their day, so I guess it’s natural that I’d do the same. But most of the people featured in this report are younger than I am, by the sound of it, so it’s a relief to know it’s not just me feeling this way. That sense of relief is tempered, however, by the fact that these problems do actually exist outside of my head.
Tomorrow’s report is going to be about what can be done to rectify the situation. That should be an interesting one.
Presented by G Money, it’s the first of two reports this week looking into what’s happening in the black community in South London in the wake of the recent speight of shootings and knife attacks.
It’s really interesting, how often the “lack of respect” amongst the young is mentioned; how there’s a feeling that today’s parents aren’t willing or able to parent their children properly.
The difference between today’s generation and the generation that myself … you come from is just one word. Respect. We grew up with respect. We respected our elders, we respected our parents; if we [were] on the road and we [were] playing the fool, playing the idiot… and I saw anybody who looked remotely like they might know my mum or dad, I was off. In today’s time? They’re not interested in that - and this speaker, a black, male social worker went on to say how if you challenge kids now, you’ll get a mouthful of abuse and be threatened with violence.
The same speaker also said this:
Now, you’re walking with your child and your child misbehaves and it is deemed, but another member of the public that you’re slapping your child too hard, you’re going to be seeing social services knocking at your door, police stopping you in the street, and they want to charge you for abusing your child… They seem to be taking all the rights of authority away from parents; they’re not putting anything else in place – who’s disciplining them? This is why we have a generation of young people who are running wild.
I’m not advocating violence towards children – although I could happily take a two by four to some of the toerags I have to deal with! – but as a parent, and given my line of work, and how bloody careful you have to be all the time about what you do and what you say, I’m doubly aware of the sort of thing this guy is talking about. And the kids themselves are incredibly aware of all the restrictions we operate under as teachers. For instance, I brushed against a girl's shoulder in the corridor at school the other day and she made a huge deal about it. I'd already walked on - I mean, it happens at lesson changeover or break when there are a lot of people around, right - but this girl was moaning at her friends until well after I was out of earshot! But I digress.
What particularly interested me about the report was the fact that most of what was said doesn’t just apply to the black community. I bet a similar survey of young white kids and people in similar jobs and situations to the other speakers featured would produce the same results.
ETA: I live and work in a predominantly white area - I have maybe half a dozen non-white kids in my classes - but I can definitely say that, from what I've seen, the things these guys were saying about the black community in South London aren't just happening there; although of course the recent violence has escalated there to a terrible degree.
G Money said: Young people now no longer fear the parental authority that extended beyond the confines of the home they grew up in… The erosion of this respect has led to a lack of discipline amongst young people – and discipline is of crucial importance.
I’ve often wondered whether the problems talked about here – the lack of respect and discipline etc. – are real, or whether it’s just me, experiencing the generation gap from my advanced age(!). People of our parents’ and grandparents’ age complained about “the youth of today” in their day, so I guess it’s natural that I’d do the same. But most of the people featured in this report are younger than I am, by the sound of it, so it’s a relief to know it’s not just me feeling this way. That sense of relief is tempered, however, by the fact that these problems do actually exist outside of my head.
Tomorrow’s report is going to be about what can be done to rectify the situation. That should be an interesting one.
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I can remember when I was still at school being gobsmacked to see some old biddy walking down the street in front of me chuck a sweet paper on the ground.
As Ma says, children these days are often not taught manners at home - although they are to some extent at school, but by then it's too late - but the people of her generation definitely were taught manners and respect. So if the older people don't behave well in public, what chance is there for the kids?
I can think of a lot of reasons why things are as they are, but I'm really not going to rant about them here!
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children these days are often not taught manners at home - although they are to some extent at school, but by then it's too late
Yes, exactly. That point comes up regularly, in that as teachers, we're expected to do more and more - some parents expect us to impose some form of "parental authority", and yet are the first to complain if little Johnny is told off! Or they expect us to do it because they can't, and of course given the limited means at our disposal it's nigh on impossible.
I have no idea what the solution is, and of course, the thing to try to bear in mind is that we're still talking about a minority. But things really do need to change somenow, or it won't be a minority for much longer.
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Well, I would, but I'm still at work and I have a pile of stuff that I have to get done this evening, so I'll let you all off. I can guarantee we are thinking the same things!
But while I'm taking a break from a set of tedious questions, I shall
bore /strike> regale you with a story of when Ma first went to stay with Pa's family before they were married. My uncle would have been about 20 at the time and already at medical school. He always was a bit of a tosser!
Over tea one afternoon, Granny asked uncle if he would like another cup of tea. He said "Yes, please" and passed his cup over. Granny poured the tea and said "Sugar?", to which he replied "No". Grandpa (terminally miserable old b*gg*r and always looking to tell someone off) looked sternly at him and said "No what?" Uncle smiled and said "No sugar".
So, it's been going on for more than 50 years. What hope is there now?
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When I was growing up my Mom always used to say that she saw raising her children as a partnership. She would teach us respect and manners at home and knew that the teachers at school would (and could) reinforce that because they knew if my sister and I stepped out of line they could call my mom and she would back them up. So it was a continuous cycle of respect from home to school and back again.
The problem as I see it is that a lot of parents today want to be "friends" rather than disciplinarians (not helped by the fact that there are more and more young teenage mothers out there who are still kids themselves) and teachers have their hands tied in terms of what they can and can't do.
I'm not a parent yet so maybe my view is skewed -I want to be close to my children and but I also know that children need boundaries and need their parents to guide them through what is acceptable behaviour and teachers need to be allowed to reinforce that at school - doesn't always make you the most popular parent but it does make you a good one.
Dan
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I'm not sure it's even that, to be honest. It's that people can't handle what happens when they tell their kids "no". My four year old is a real handful and we frequently get a fit of the screaming ab-dabs when we say no - but we say it and ride them out.
Children do absolutely need boundaries - even older ones although they wouldn't admit it, which is why one of the most important things you can do in a classroom is establish continuity and routine. But it's impossible to do that when the kids won't shut up long enough for you to do it!
It's all very well for people to bang on about education - which is something which came out of the second of these reports - but it needs to start at home first - otherwise, by the time we (i.e teachers) get the kids, we've got no chance.