DW 5x05 - Flesh and Stone

[caz963]

This is more of a muddle of thoughts I’ve written down as a result of watching Flesh and Stone than it is an actual recap of the plot. You all saw it – you know what happened, right?



I know I read somewhere that Alex Kingston wasn’t that familiar with DW before she appeared in it. But seriously – what she just said in the DWC about never having seen the Doctor behave with such passion and emotion before… what fucking planet has she been living on? Okay, so watching the show isn’t a prerequisite for appearing in it, I get that. But did she never watch David Tennant when she worked with him? Wasn’t she in the scene where River killed herself while the Doctor watched? Serously, there was more passion and emotion in David's little finger in that scene than in the whole of this episode, Matt's tear-filled eyes notwithstanding.

Daft woman.

I still like River though. I think the character works much better with Eleven than with Ten, perhaps due to the fact that when she was originally introduced, Moffat may not have been 100% sure he was going to be able to bring her back or where he was going to go. He more or less said in the DWC that he hadn't planned this storyline when he wrote the Library story, but then went on to say that we'll get to know more about her and her relationship with the Doctor, and who she really is. She’s such an intriguing character – while I do want to find out what’s going on, because there’s certainly more to her than meets the eye, I’m sort of hoping it’s not just a one series storyline. And as for her having killed the best man she ever knew… did everyone else think the same thing as me? That she’s talking about the Doctor himself,? She somehow causes the next regeneration? (Which would mean that her story would have to be more than a one series deal.)

Anyway. A good conclusion to the story begun last week. Amy managed not to get on my nerves again, which is a good thing, and we finally got the by-now obligatory Doctor/companion snog (which had been seen in the original trailer aired at Christmas). And I have to say, the way she was trying to climb him was quite funny. I confess I’d been hoping we wouldn’t be going down that road this time around, although I do get the impression it was more a spur of moment thing on Amy’s part, a kind of “hey we survived death, and you’re sort of cute if I look at you the right way (and avoid looking at your ears), so how about a quick one?” - thing. The Doctor actively fighting her off was a bit different, too – Ten used to let them get on with it and look gorgeously gobsmacked afterwards.

So now we know for sure that the crack is a crack in time – “time is running out” literally, it appears. There was the reference to the events of The Next Doctor - the Cybermen appeared in Victorian London – but how come nobody remembered? The first contact with aliens in the DW world is supposed to have been in the 21st Century. But there’s still the question of Amy not knowing about Daleks as well. (Mind you, nobody seems to have said anything about Daleks in New York in the 1930s either!) I suppose this supports the “alternative universe” theory – but which one is the alternative one and which is the real one?

And what does Amy need to remember from when she was seven? Thinking back to TEH, there was that scene at the end, where we see Amelia, sitting on her suitcase in the garden still waiting for the Doctor to come back. We hear the sound, she looks up and smiles and - cut to grown-up Amy waking up and hearing it. Presumably, we're supposed to think she's been dreaming, but what if the Doctor did come back? Or perhaps a different Doctor, as the Eleven we've seen so far doesn't seem to remember it either. But clearly he does - because he tells her to remember. When did he roll up his shirt-sleeves and get his jacket back? One minute he's saying goodbye to Amy and telling her he'll be back and we see those horrible stripy cuffs. Then in the close up of his hands on hers - no cuffs. It's pretty big for a continuity error.

My head hurts!

I enjoyed the episode, although it didn't feel quite as pacy as last week's. There was a lot of super-fast exposition required and which I need to watch again (the downside of watching with kids, they ask questions at the wrong time so I miss stuff!) The idea of turning the whole “don’t blink” thing on its head by having Amy unable to open her eyes was a good one, although I’m not sure it really worked. “Don’t blink” has become such an iconic phrase – I don’t think “don’t open your eyes” has quite the same potential somehow.

I did like the bits where we finally got to see the angels move – it reminded me of the bit in Jason and the Argonauts where the huge bronze statue of Talos moves for the first time. Scared the crap out of me as a kid!

It seems that Eleven also has a propensity to let his mouth run away with him, although it appears that he has a particular talent for saying exactly the wrong thing at the wrong time. We got to see a bit more of the Doctor’s rage this time around as well. I’m glad to see it’s not completely disappeared, I just think that Eleven is better at suppressing it – which also means (I think) that when he takes the lid off, he’ll really blow. Or that he should – I’m still not convinced that Matt Smith has the gravitas to really pull it off in the way that Eccleston and Tennant did. Don’t get me wrong - he’s doing a good enough job, but he’s just not hitting the spot for me yet, and maybe he won’t. But that’s okay. As long as the scripts and stories are decent and I like what he’s doing - there’s a gawkiness to his portrayal that is strangely endearing – I’ll be here.

The whole “time can be rewritten” thing is intriguing – it was said twice (or more?) in this story, and Ten said it as well just before River died. Is the Doctor going to have to rewrite time in some way in order to put things back on track? Or will it somehow play into the killing of the best man she ever knew?

I imagine all this will fade into the background a bit for a few episodes, although I’m sure there will be some more breadcrumb trails laid for us to follow!

Is 26-06-2010 the date the final episode airs?

Comments

[houselover87.livejournal.com]

if that's the date of the last ep, then there's one missing. that's only twelve weeks, and there's thirteen eps...at least I think that's what I heard? maybe?

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I haven't checked the calendar, but it's a two part finale, so maybe that's the date the first part airs, so it still fits :-)

[houselover87.livejournal.com]

Very true. I am in the process of downloading this ep now...but don't tell anyone! *looks around furtively*

Sometimes living in the US sucks. So I turn to the trusty net...and it rarely fails me. :)

[hooloovoo_42]

I have to say I found this week fairly tedious. Yes, I came to the same conclusion as you, except that I'm wondering if causing a regeneration would deserve such punishment.

I don't like the way the Doctor keeps rambling on about stuff while he's thinking it over and I HATE his costume with a passion. He looks like a kid in outgrown & hand me down clothes. Mum looked at him and said "is that the new Doctor, he's not old enough".

I still didn't think the angels were as scary as the first time round. And the way they were disposed of was very quick and convenient. Now they never existed, they no longer exist in your mind.

Decidedly underwhelmed. The only person I liked was the Bishop and the way he died.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

The costume doesn't really bother me - they had to do something very different to Ten's but without making it too outlandish - which is fairly difficult. I mean men wear trousers and jackets. Ten wore them as a suit, so they wouldn't have wanted to do that again. At least he doesn't have a clown-coat like Six!

I want to know how he got his jacket back from the angels :P

Elinor was scared witless after last week's episode, but not this week, so I suppose that's as good a scary-o-meter as any.

I've realised that, as others have said, I'm watching this as if it's a different show. Yes, I see the throwbacks and references to what's gone before, but I don't have the same emotional connection as I did to Rusty's DW. Perhaps that'll change as things develop.

[malsperanza.livejournal.com]

He didn't get his jacket back from the angels--it's a different jacket.

Much nodding in agreement with your comments. Not convinced of MS's weight as an actor yet; so far have seen him be competent, occasionally good, and often miss an opportunity to deliver a moment with the kind of zing that his predecessors had. (I mean, it's not an accident that "Don't blink, don't even blink" became an iconic phrase--and not only because it's well-written. It's also well-delivered.)

OTOH, I think Moffat and Smith have made a brave and risky choice to do Eleven as a withholding, opaque hero. He's not human, he never was. He has watched a great many people crash and burn on his altar and he's not gonna go there anymore. What interests him is the job of universe-saving, and he needs companions for that, tant pis. 2 hearts just mean 2 organs for pumping blood (or ichor, or whatever), not a divided and conflicted soul. Or that's his story, anyway, and he's stickin to it.

The risk is that this distant, closed character will not bond so easily with viewers. There's a fine line between being mysterious and being a blank. The payoff is that eventually, if/when we do see the Eleven exposed, it packs a punch. In a way Ten did that a bit at first: he looked all happy-go-lucky and sprightly and jolly for a bit: the very opposite of Nine's towering darkness (which was a brilliant innovation for DW). It lasted until he met Sarah Jane, and she accused him of abandoning her--that was the first crack, followed by Mme de Pompadour. After that, he spiraled straight down into the abyss.

I don't expect Eleven to follow the same path. But I do like the flashes of real anger, arrogance, and impatience we are seeing in him now. And sooner or later he's going to have to stop keeping all his secrets to himself.

Meanwhile, though, the ones who have embraced Eleven so far seem mostly to be the Eleven/Amy shippers, who I fear are doomed to be disappointed.

I also dislike the outfit. Tennant's geekchic was so extreme it sort of worked, and then he had the sweeping duster (= superhero cape) which was not geeky at all. Eleven's clothes are neither ubergeeky nor classy on their own; they just look stupid to me. I liked the publicity photos of Matt Smith in a black jacket and jeans, but I suppose it made him look too young, cool, and contemporary.

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

I loved it. It's complicated and completely different from Rusty did, re: character and story arcs. But that's a post/discussion for another time.

Go back and check out the scene where the Doctor leaves Amy in the woods. Then he comes back briefly and tells her to remember... One minute he's not wearing his jacket (the Angels stole it from him) and the next he is. Look at the scene and tell me that's not the Doctor already re-writing history!

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I meant about the shirt/jacket thing. Those cuffs are just SO horrible and noticeable that I can't believe it was an accident they weren't there in that shot of his hands. And his manner is completely different, too. Which makes me think that perhaps he did go back to see Amelia, but that it was the later him, the one that's rewriting time.

I agree it's different to Rusty who tends to be character driven as opposed to plot driven. I don't object to the plot driven style as I like to have my brain engaged and have something to talk about ;-)
Provided the plot is good, of course, and this is shaping up to be a corker!

[luinel-anduril.livejournal.com]

i hold that time is already being rewritten, and maybe Eleven doesn't even know what Amy should remember. But the crack clearly has something to do with her.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Or it might be that whatever it is, it's something she has to remember on her own because if he helps her, or tells her, whatever it is he's up to won't work properly. That's the impression I got from that scene, but you're right, it could also be that he's forgotten and that whatever it is, he went back and told Amelia because he knew he'd forget. It also accounts for his being so cagey about why he'd chosen to travel with her at the end of the first episode. She's got something in her head he needs.

[luinel-anduril.livejournal.com]

i'm not sure that he's figured Amy out just yet... i'm not sure that the crack had as much to do with his wanting Amy to come along as i originally thought, at least, at the very best he only seems to remember/have it in mind a small portion of the time. But perhaps he is very, very good at hiding what he's actually thinking/knows. He has freely admitted to hiding things from Amy, which is unusual for him. My brain is just teeming with ideas atm, though, and nothing has quite settled yet. But i'm sure you know where my ideas lie... and i did some major squeeing round about the time where he said that she had to remember.

[fanbot.livejournal.com]

Does/did River kill the Doctor? I think so.
imagine their timelines: The first time the Doctor met River, she died, so maybe the first time she meets the Doctor he dies. And somewhere in the middle there will be a meeting where neither one has memories of it. (when there will be lots of time snogs and "heel boy!" action.)

you said "Don’t get me wrong - he’s doing a good enough job, but he’s just not hitting the spot for me yet, and maybe he won’t. But that’s okay. As long as the scripts and stories are decent and I like what he’s doing "

I agree. So far I've not seen the "oncoming storm" in this Doctor. He has all that power, you gotta fear the man.
and yes, keep the stories good, please.

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

A lot of older fans would, I'm sure, like to see the "Oncoming Storm" aspects toned down - for the first 26 years of Doctor Who the character wasn't a superhero, just an eccentric scientist bumbling around getting into trouble. But I suppose you can never go back...

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm an older fan, too (I remember Two, although I'd say that Three was my first Doctor) - and I rather like the Oncoming Storm aspect of the character. I can't believe that someone - human or not - could have reached the Doctor's age, seen and done the things he's seen and done without having developed some sort of rage against the way the universe works at times.

You can never go back... unless you rewrite time! ;-)

[caz963.livejournal.com]

There has to be a point at which their timelines converge in the right way - they meet in the middle so to speak, so they can actually have this supposed relationship.

If it actually exists.

[okelay.livejournal.com]

I do find Eleven to be more stable than Ten, but I'm not sure if I necessarily like that.

there's a theory that Doctor-with-jacket was future!Doctor coming back to warn theory. I thought he was on amy's mind.

I'm still rather confused at the timelines, things are missing, we don't know the date...it's really messing with my head.

I remember that bit where amy is waiting and it seems the Doctor is coming back and then is adult amy...what happened there?

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I do find Eleven to be more stable than Ten, but I'm not sure if I necessarily like that.

Same here, although I do recognise that Ten couldn't sink much further into the angst without losing his mind completely!

The timey-wimey is definitely very wibbly-wobbly!

[scarfman]

The whole “time can be rewritten” thing is intriguing – ... will it somehow play into the killing of the best man she ever knew?

I wonder whether it'll turn out that, in the Series 2010 finale, River kills a future incarnation of the Doctor - but events play out so that incarnation will never come to exist?

You heard it here first, folks.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Heh. I like the idea that she kills a future version of him, although I was thinking more along the lines of it happening in a future series.

But her killing a future incarnation this series would certainly solve future casting problems (because it wouldn't matter who they cast if he turns out not to exist! :P

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

My version - which has just been modded I think - is she kills ELEVEN (in series finale) but that rewrites time by closing the Pandorica so he's never died, no regneration happens and the universe is back to normal as-it-was-in-RTD-time:-)

[goldenmoonrose.livejournal.com]

hit the nail on the hammer with the assessment of Amy jumping the Doctor.

and the timey wimey stuff, I totally missed. but River killing the Doctor, glad I wasn't seeing things.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think you were seeing things - most of the reactions I've read say the same thing. Of course, it's also more than likely that it's the Moff messing with our heads big time!

[olsonm-raymond.livejournal.com]

I liked this two parter as well.

When the Doctor was resisting Amy, telling her that he was too old and it couldn't work it reminded me that I have finally come around to your perspective on the Doctor and Rose. Like a lot of people I just enjoyed Billie Piper and David Tennant together. But if you think about the logic of the characters it didn't make a lot of sense.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Heh - a convert! Although it's not just the age thing - I can quite happily see Ten travelling with Donna "forever", because I think she was enough of a grown-up to know what it meant. But that's another post!

I liked this, and liked the interactions between Eleven and River. Matt Smith does better when he's playing opposite an experienced actor - they give him something to bounce off, unlike Gillan who is a poor actress, at best.

[olsonm-raymond.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on the maturity angle. The regeneration would be a problem too. I just realized that a romantic relationship between the doctor and an immature character doesn't make much sense for those reasons.

I agree about Matt Smith doing better with River. I like him. It's still early in his run but I think he could be a very solid doctor.