Maybe baby..?

[caz963]

I've tried to hide spoilers in this. I'm not saying anything that's not in the public domain, but just in case...

Okay. As a way of trying to stop myself from thinking too hard about what might or might not happen in next week's DW, and about what might be this (highlight to read) thing that will make us look at the series' mythology differently (according to the current issue of DWM) I've decided to post about something that's been bothering me increasingly over the past few weeks.



If you love Amy, you might want to stop reading this right now. Please bear in mind that I'm expressing AN OPINION - which doesn't happen to be favourable towards her; but I'm always happy to hear opinions that differ from mine when expressed politely :-)



I know it's a contentious issue, and I'm sure there's an explanation - but for some reason, I'm really unhappy about the pregnancy plotline.

I've been trying to work out just why it bothers me so much, and I really can't quite put my finger on it, so if any of you have any ideas/comments/similar concerns, I'd be really glad to hear them as it might help me to reach a conclusion that makes sense rather than just being a "because I don't like it" answer.

What I've come up so far is this.

1. I don't think pregnancy has ever been touched on in DW before in this way (i.e, one of the main characters being/not being preggers). Not that "it's never been done" is a reason NOT to do something, but I'm just not comfortable with pregnancy being made, well - A Plot Point. And then, I'm not comfortable with it being made into A Plot Point in a show of this nature. I hesitate to get into the "it's a kid's snow / it's a family show" argument, but it's undeniable that a large proportion of the audience is made up of younger viewers and IMO, it's just not the sort of storyline in which kids are likely to be all that interested.

2. Chatting to a friend earlier, she said "I don't think Amy even loves Rory, so why should I care if she's pregnant?"
For me, that's part of it, but it's also yet another instance of Amy being used as a means to further the plot rather than being made into a fully rounded character. I know we're only three episodes into s6, but I'd hoped I'd be able to warm to her more this series as she's now "back on track" - she's not the girl whose life doesn't make sense any more; she has a family, she has Rory (although God knows why - she treats him like shite) and I thought that now that mystery has been cleared up, she'd be easier to like.

Sadly, that hasn't happened yet. At best, she's not annoying me as much so far, but I suspect that's just becasue having a Team of Three instead of Two means she gets a bit less screen time

3. This show isn't called Amy Pond. Once again, we're being hammered over the head with how SPESHUL Amy is while still being given no real reason as to why we should think so. Or rather, why we should think she's MOAR speshul than any of the Doctor's other companions. Moffat has already said (highlight)that something will happen which will change Amy and the Doctor's relationship forever ... which would mean a lot more if I actually gave a damn about her. As with the last series, I think he's so preoccupied with making her fit with the demands of the plot that he's forgotten to give her a character. And he's doing the same thing again with the "is she or isn't she?" thing - placing her somehow at the centre of things for no (as yet) discernible reason. Donna Noble may have been referred to as the most important woman in the history of creation, but that came pretty late on in the series and even Donna herself thought it was bollocks. And while one could argue that with both Amy and Donna, their "special-ness" was becuase they happened to be in the right place at the right time, I think it's also true to say that Donna showed her awesome pretty early on, knowing when to push and when to let something go; "don't you hurt him"; "you can stop now" - and so on.

Whereas with Amy - EVERYTHING about her (supposed) "special-ness" is to do with her being in the right place at the right time. She was "odd" and knew so many things about the Doctor that she really shouldn't have - her life didn't make sense because the universe had been bleeding into her head through the cracks. And now... it seems there's another Plot revolving around where she is and the company she keeps.

I know there are people out there who love her and think she's awesome, but I still can't see it. I keep hoping...

4. I'm not mushy when it comes to babies or kids, but I do think that being pregnant is an incredible thing and as I've said above, I'm just not comfortable with it being made into A Plot Device. I know that some shows do it all the time - but this isn't Eastenders. I've seen all the theories about alternate time lines etc. and they're interesting and may turn out to be correct but at the end of the day, it all boils down to one thing.

If Amy is pregnant (and either knows on some level that she is, or suspects she is) then she's being a tad irresponsible running around the universe, fighting pirates and facing Certain Death on a regular basis.

And okay, so she might NOT be pregnant. But the point is that she MIGHT be - and as anyone who has been trying to conceive will tell you, even at the point where you don't know either way, you're beginning to exercise caution and do everything you can to minimise risks to that (possible) life.

And also - what the hell is the Doctor doing? This is a man who values life in all its forms to the extent that he would - and has, frequently - put himself in harm's way to protect even ONE life. Whatever Amy knows or suspects or doesn't know - HE KNOWS. He knows she might be expecting a child and yet makes no attempt to ... maybe not dissuade her or persuade her to go home - at the very least, suggest she takes a pregnancy test!

So there you have it. Anyone else out there got any similar concerns?

Comments

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Whatever Amy knows or suspects or doesn't know - HE KNOWS. He knows she might be expecting a child and yet makes no attempt to ... maybe not dissuade her or persuade her to go home - at the very least, suggest she takes a pregnancy test!

I don't think a test would work, he seems to have already tested her with the scan. I do wonder why he's not said anything to her though, that seems a bit much to keep from a companion. I hope there's a good reason for it all.

It's a weird thing to have as a plot point, innit? It's a bit fanficcy (and I say that as someone who constantly writes babyfic) and... yeah, I'm just waiting to see how it goes.

As for the other stuff, I like Amy a lot but her relationship with Rory just bores me so when they're being all lovely I just stop paying attention. It's so... normal.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Well yeah, a pee-on-a-stick test is redundant, innit?

It IS a weird thing to have in a DW storyline - and as such you know it can't end well (on screen anyway). The fact that the idea of a creche in the TARDIS is just plain daft is one of the reasons I don't really "do" babyfic, You can't run around saving the universe when you've got to stop for a feed every few hours!

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

They could build a robonanny!

[kilodalton]

As with the last series, I think he's so preoccupied with making her fit with the demands of the plot that he's forgotten to give her a character.

This is just what Moffat DOES, and I've learned to ignore it.

* Take TEC/TDD, where Rose starts whining about "gimme some Spock" and being flirty with Nine, neither of which she ever does again
* Take GITF, where everyone acts like a pod person ... Ten and Rose forget they're into each other (and he goes goo-goo for someone who is never mentioned ever again), Rose forgets she is jealous as a major character trait in the previous ep (and will be jealous in the next ep, and in TSE), Rose and Mickey forget that he's not really wanted aboard (which again, is kinda the whole point behind him staying behind in a parallel world in the very next 2-parter!!!!)
* Take Blink, where the normally reticent Martha starts whining/nagging at Ten both times she is onscreen, neither of which she ever does again

Etc, etc, etc

Moffat comes up with a plot, and crams the characters into it, characterization and emotional arcs be damned. It's a big reason I can't stand him.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Interestingly I was reading the article on GitF in this month's DWM just last night and in it, the writer points out the inconsistencies of characterisation you mention. it seems that the episode got moved around a lot - it was ep 10 (or something) then 3, then back to the second half, then back to 4 etc.... and (so the article says) when commissioned to write it SM had no idea of the fact that Rose was miffed at the end of the previous ep about Mickey coming on board.
I'm not making excuses for poor characterisation - just thought it was interesting you'd mentioned it when I'd read the article just last night.

I've enjoyed his stories for DW and I'm still (mostly) enjoying them when I can sweep stuff like this under the carpet. But I don't go into orgasms of delight over them like many in fandom seem to do!

Not only does Plot > Characterisation in Moffat's Who, but Cleverness > Emotion as well, it seems, I still stand by what I said here (http://caz963.livejournal.com/367922.html) - that Moffat's about the Head while Rusty was about the Heart,

[kilodalton]

Oooh which DWM is that? I don't subscribe and I really, really should. I heard that Moffat said that originally he had thought up the episode for Nine, but then found out that Eccleston was leaving, and was like "eh, what the heck, it'd work for Ten too."

Episode 10 of s2?!? Really? That would have been terrible. RTD said in the commentary for ... um ... some second-half-of-s2 episode, I want to say TIL but don't hold me to that .. that his idea was to put up "roadblocks" to Ten and Rose's relationship (like Sarah-Jane and Reinette) until the second half of the season, basically because it was an intense relationship and pretty much would have had nowhere to go except "places inappropriate for a family show" or something like that XD XD

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I liked pod!Rose :( But yeah she was OOC. And then there's jealous!Donna in the Library eps where Moffat seems to have assumed she'd fancy the Doctor and nobody told him otherwise. Where were the script-editors and Rusty himself to fix these things? I don't have a problem with the Doctor chasing after Reinette, though, he's never seemed all that monogamous before or since. And it does fit the love-and-loss theme, so there's that.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I liked pod!Rose much better than real!Rose *g*

But as we know, Rusty never touched Moff's scripts. I don't know if this was because he (RTD) was so much of a Moff fanboy that he thought that his writings should remain unsullied until put into production, or it if was because there was something in Moff's contract that precluded any polishing or rewriting,

[kilodalton]

I liked pod!Rose :( But yeah she was OOC.

Yeah, she wasn't true to her character. This is the same girl that not 5 episodes before broke open the TARDIS to go save Nine ... and he's trying convince us she'd stand around moping for 5.5 hours? Lol no. I read this great fic once where (since it's the 51st century), they manage to eventually get ahold of Jack Harkness via his vortex manipulator to come save the day -- now THAT I could see!! XD

And then there's jealous!Donna in the Library eps where Moffat seems to have assumed she'd fancy the Doctor and nobody told him otherwise

Forgot about that! But yup.

I don't have a problem with the Doctor chasing after Reinette, though, he's never seemed all that monogamous before or since.

I questioned that until I heard the Moffat/Noel Clarke MP3 interview on the BBC website (at least it was there before the s5 redesign ... but it's still on megaupload at least. But I digress). Noel specifically asks Moffat about that, and Moffat said that no, he doesn't think there was any "DANCING" going on - that when he wrote the line, he had Reinette using that word because after being in his head, she knew it was a double entendre and was flirting with him, but that she "wouldn't be that quick". Which I was glad to hear him say, tbh, because that would have been mega-OOC in an ep that was already swimming in it.

What irks me more than anything about the ep though is you're right that it's portrayed as love-and-loss ... but then it never gets even a passing mention ever again. And they're all laughing and joking at the beginning of the next ep like nothing had ever happened. Heck, even poor Joan got a mention in EOT - even Jabe and poor ill-fated Lynda-with-a-Y and Astrid did in JE!! But Reinette? Nope. (Maybe that was intentional though - I know it's a pretty polarizing ep, so maybe Rusty was like "uh oh, let's just forget about this one, shall we?" lol).

[annissamazing]

One of the main criticisms I hear against Moffat is that he's a sexist. The statements he makes about his characters all seem to point to him believing that women are for sex and babies. Period.

So, when I see that one of the major plot points in this season is that Amy is pregnant, I'm annoyed. It's not that I have a problem with babies or pregnancy (I happily read babyfic), it's that I expect it from Moffat. I want Moffat to break out of this idea of women's lives revolving around finding a husband and getting pregnant. That, while pregnancy and motherhood is wonderful, it's not the sum total of what we, as women, are. I want Moffat to surprise me. I want a well-rounded female character. Right now, Amy is a leggy cardboard cutout. Which is weird since the series appears to be revolving around her right now.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I readily admit that the sexism issue doesn't get me as riled up as it does some (I said as much when I wrote about the Comic Relief episodes) - and there's no denying that the man has said some spectacularly stupid things.

The thing I don't get though, is that he's married to a highly successful television producer (Sue Vertue), so it's not like he's got a little wifey waiting at home with his dinner on the table and his pipe and slippers by the fire!

I think it's the fact that the show is so Amy-centric that's bugging me almost more than anything. If I liked her more I might not have such a problem with it, but this has been the case since ep 2 of S5 when Amy saved the day with knowledge she really shouldn't have had, and then in ep 3 with the "defusing by talking" of Bracewell,
I really hope she's going at some point this season. It was unusual, even back in the day for companions to stay for more than a couple of years, so fingers crossed!

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

The statements he makes about his characters all seem to point to him believing that women are for sex and babies. Period.

To be fair, he's sadly not alone in this amongst Doctor Who writers. Even RTD seemed to make his companions fixated on getting a man and/or marriage (Donna thankfully had a long run of not being this way, but certainly started and ended her arc in that box) and, by extension, all that entails (sex/babies/etc). It was like no woman could be strong and independent on her own, she had to either be with a man or actively trying to get one. It'll be nice to move on from that someday in Doctor Who, but it's such a widespread thing on telly, I'm not sure my hopes are high. :(

[bexatious.livejournal.com]

You do realise it's all explainable in this: Moffat is a misogynist. He knows he's got to have a woman in a show but has no idea how to write one that actually makes sense. He just throws everything at it and hope something works because he SERIOUSLY doesn't know/care about women.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I thought he was just a sexist wanker *shrug*

[bexatious.livejournal.com]

Also, despite trying to hide the spoilers, you kinda dropped massive hints in the subject of your post. Not that I care bc I don't watch the show, but some others might.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Hm - good point. It was late when I wrote it and that didn't occur to me!

[kiss-me-cassie.livejournal.com]

Do you know mcamy? She had a really good post today about why she has troubles with 11. Mainly that she could see what motivated and made 9 and 10 tick, but 11... eh. He's too murky. And in his 2nd series in, shouldn't you have an inkling by now? (Maybe not. I have not idea if they explored that with previous Doctors. Or if it made a difference with them.)

I think the not knowing about 11, coupled with all of the above about Amy, is why I'm having such a hard time with Who in general lately. I still *like* it, but I can't be bothered to run to the tivo on Sundays or to look round the 'net for spoilers or reactions anymore. It's no longer an obsession, but merely an enjoyable hour of tv for me.

[mcamy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with the non-rounded character/plot point thing. I think we're supposed to like Amy because she's spunky? I actually like Rory better at this point, because I feel like I know him. I know what he feels for Amy, I know what he's willing to do based on that feeling, etc. That they are married and he can still believe she's talking about The Doctor's stupid face makes me sad for him.

I enjoy it still. I'll keep watching. But I'm not in love with it anymore.

And seriously? Moffat can bring. it. So I'm disappointed with him more than anybody.

Luckily, Ten is on DVD at my house any time I need him. :)

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I wrote a fair bit of meta about S5 last year and I remember saying that with Moffat, "spunky" and "feisty" appear to equal "rude" and "abrupt" in that whenever he gave Amy what he assumed was a zinger, to me it came across as extremely crass and in-yer-face. I was thinking particularly of the scene in Cold Blood (I think it was) where they've been captured underground and are watching Rory and the others via a screen and she came out with the "not clingy" remark, Huh? Was that supposed to be feisty? Because to me, it just felt rude and inappropriate.

Honestly, I could have THROWN THINGS during those scenes in DotM. I'm so sick of the "who does Amy twooly wuvve?" thing. She made her choice, she married Rory and a kids'/family show is not the place to be exploring those sorts of issues, so start showing us that she's capable of loving someone else besides herself!

I think Moffat's a fabulous writer - I love his sense of humour and he really can write dialogue that sparkles. But running the show and writing more than one story a year is a different kettle of fish from just being a "star" guest-writer.

Ah, Ten. Now we're talkin'!

[caz963.livejournal.com]

she could see what motivated and made 9 and 10 tick, but 11... eh

That's one of my issues, too. I've said before that one of the problems is that I don't feel that I really know Eleven - and that anything I do know of him is informed by what I knew of Ten. For example- it makes sense that Eleven is more emotionally reticent becasue of the way Ten repeatedly put himself out there and got both hearts ripped out and stomped on,

I think that the "not-knowing" is also a deliberate move away from the Doctor as the heart of the show. He's still at the centre of the action, but no longer it's emotional heart, if you see what i mean. And that was often the case with the older Doctors, who were more enigmatic and unknowable than Nine or Ten were.

That said though, if the Gaiman episode at the weekend delivers all its promising (and I have no idea what that is!) then perhaps the emotional heart will return.

[mcamy.livejournal.com]

Then the problem may be that it's lost its heart, because I don't see anybody else who is the heart of the show in The Doctor's place.

[katherine-b.livejournal.com]

Amen, sister.

And actually this is the second time Amy is pregnant, and that previous occasion actually meant something even though it actually happened in a dream world. This just seemed like an occasion for the world to revolve around Amy (at least during her announcement of it to the Doctor at the cliff-hanging moment) when she had to stop the Doctor from saving everyone else to tell him something that, in the end, wasn't. As you say, we suddenly have pregnancy as an issue when it wasn't before. It's almost as if Moff is not just saying how SPESHUL Amy is, but also clubbing us over the head with the fact that she's female.

I can't care about Amy either. I bitterly hate how it's become The Companion instead of Doctor Who. I never even bought that Donna was The Most Important, but at least she had a lot of moments of brilliance that showed how she earned that title. Amy is the biggest Deu ex Machina I've ever seen. She has to be brave and heroic, but she has to be captured and the centre of attention by the bad guy. She has to understand ramblings from Eleven that not even River can (and don't get me started on her!) but she has to be dumb when the necessary moment exists as well. She simply doesn't seem to have a character, and this is quite apart from the fact that she hasn't changed or grown in the slightest since we first saw her in Eleventh Hour. The lack of character development in this series has made me roll my eyes.

I'm afraid I don't think this version of the Doctor cares about mankind as much as about Amy. The rest of the Universe can go to hell as long as she's all right. If she's pregnant, it will give the Doctor lots of chances to be angry with everyone else if they threaten her. And if that's the storyline that Moff is pursuing, it just gives me even more reason to stop watching it until either she leaves or Eleven regenerates.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I don't think this version of the Doctor cares about mankind as much as about Amy.

Heh, I've been sat enjoying that Eleven is the first in ages where I feel like the Doctor thinks humanity > companion.

Sometimes I think some of the Amy stuff has been poking fun at the idea of a supercompanion, like when she really was the most important person in the universe with the cracks and the remembering thing, and yet it had nothing to do with her as a person.

[katherine-b.livejournal.com]

Hmm, different perceptions. I just don't recall too many scenes were Eleven mentioned how much he actually liked humanity.

I think about the episodes of S5 and the scenes that immediately come to mind are:
*Eleven only getting really angry with Prisoner Zero when Amy specifically was targeted (he seemed a bit ticked previously, but didn't seem to be going all-out to save the Earth),
*Eleven only really seeming to do anything much after Amy was kidnapped by Smilers (before that he only looked at glasses of water - if he'd figured it out before, why take so long to actually do something?)
*Eleven only stops whinging about River and does something once Amy is trapped in with the Angel. He also only gets angry when Amy has fallen victim to the Angels.
*Eleven did little to stop the Vampires until Amy was at risk of being their victim.
*Eleven did not seem that worried about Elliott and Tony. It was only when the Silurians took Amy that he leapt into action. He even puts Amy first in the list of those who need to be rescued.
*Eleven pretends that Amy is the least important person in a dying Universe to get Rory to react. He then talks almost exclusively about and to her for the rest of the time.

I suppose the alternate idea is that Amy must be put in danger in almost every single episode and it just happens to be that the Doctor realises what's happening at the same time. I'm afraid I'm not convinced though. I'd love to think that Moff that things planned out to that detail, but I'm afraid I don't. I can't believe he's put that much thought into it. His thoughts are clearly about how clever he can show himself to be.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Well, Moff has said something in interviews along the lines of "if you really, REALLY want to piss off this Doctor, then harm a hair on Amy Pond's head".

Thing is - I think all the Doctors would have behaved in that way if someone threatened their companion(s), so Eleven isn't the only one to be fiercely protective. But the problem comes when you can't see WHY he's so fiercely protective, doesn't it? Ten promising to do all sorts of diabolical things to someone who dared to hurt Rose/Martha/Donna? Yes, absolutely. But I can't for the life of me work out what Eleven sees in Amy. He admitted in TPO that he hadn't just taken her along on a whim - he'd taken her along because of the crack in the wall and because her life didn't make sense - so basically, because of events rather than because of Amy as a person.

If she's pregnant it at least mean's she's outta the TARDIS, right? I can't see the Doctor setting up a nursery... ;-)