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caz963I’ve found it quite hard to get into this next run of picspams. Not because I don’t like the episodes, but probably because I know what’s coming and that it’s going to hurt :-(
Season 4 has some of the darkest, weightiest stories we’ve seen in all of nu-Who, and despite the high angst-factor, it’s one of the reasons that it’s my favourite season. I like the complexities and the drama and all of that, but looking back, I wouldn’t have minded a bit more light for another episode or two. Rewatching The Unicorn and the Wasp was such a joy. Like I said in my recap, it’s a shame we didn’t get more of the Doctor and Donna in total ‘fun’ mode because they were just so damn good at it together.
I know that wasn’t possible for practical reasons, but still…
On to the Library episodes. If all Moffat’s Series 5 episodes are like this. I think my head will explode before the finale!
We’re in the land of the wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, so I don’t think I’m going to picspam my way through each episode because I suspect I’ll find myself going off at all sorts of tangents along the way and going backwards and forwards. So what I thought I’d do is pick out certain scenes or lines or plot points or other things of interest instead.
There will, of course, be a substantial number of GTPs. (Gratuitous Tennant Pics)
Oh, and pick out pretty as well. Did I not mention the pretty?
You have to love the idea that the sonic screwdriver doesn’t work on wood!
Oh, get out of the way! Sadly, there’s not a cap of Donna booting the door in!
One shadow…
… but what’s casting it?
I’m going to ask a question that I’m also going to answer in a minute. Why was/is there such hatred in the fandom for River Song? I regard myself as being on the very fringe of DW fandom, if that, but even I came across the River-hate.
I love Alex Kingston, I thought she was great in the role and I’m delighted to hear that she’ll be back next season. She might have been a bit of a pain in the arse at times, yes, but that’s no reason for the vitriol I was seeing, surely?
As far as I can see there are two or three reasons for it – and please feel free to correct me or contribute more.
1. For me, this seems to be the main reason people disliked her – she usurped the role of the companion, especially in FotD
2 Doctor/whoever shippers didn’t like some woman barging in on their shippy patch acting like she was the missus
3. River was a mouthy know-it-all.
Er. That last one? What’s Ten if he’s not a mouthy know-it-all? Or Donna, for that matter.
2. is just stupid. I’ve said this before about Rose. The Doctor is over 900 years old and it’s ridiculous to think that he’d have loved only once in such a long life. We know he had children at some point, so presumably he had a wife or partner that he, also presumably, loved. He loved Rose, he loved Reinette – hell, he loved her enough to get stuck in the 18th Century with her! – I believe he loved Sarah-Jane romantically as well at some point, and I also think that he could well have felt that way about Donna, had she stuck around for longer, despite all their protestations. So what's so wrong about him being in love quite a long way in the future? (I’m assuming here that River’s not a time traveller in her own right, and that when we see her in S5, it’ll be because the Doctor is in the 51st century again)
Are they all looking scared enough?
The Doctor doesn’t think so
Heh.
And now – proof that Steven Moffat understands fangirls!
From this scene, it’s clear (to me, at least!) that River has never met the Doctor in his tenth incarnation. And I think that perhaps she’s seen him in more than one ‘version’, because it explains why she’s being so familiar with him when she arrives. She sent him a message, he’s there, therefore he’s the Doctor – doesn’t matter if he looks like ‘her’ Doctor or not. So future!Doctor has either told her about regeneration, or she’s seen it, or she’s seen him before and after one or perhaps even two.
But she’s not seen him as Ten, so future!Doctor has obviously never filled her in on what he looked like in his past. She makes at least two comments about his ‘youth’, which to me implies that ‘her’ Doctor is much older.
I mean, if he’s ‘young’ at 904 (I know that’s debatable, but let’s take Rusty’s word for it for the sake of argument), he’s not going to be ‘old’ at, say, 924, is he? We also know that she doesn’t travel with him all the time, so whatever their relationship is, it’s not settled down with a mortgage and a cat! Just before she dies, she talks about him turning up on her doorstep, from which I infer that he goes off on his own sometimes, which I think makes sense. He’s too much of a wanderer to be completely happy staying in one place, and besides, if he’s at home drinking cocoa and wearing slippers, who’s out there saving the universe?
My eldest asked “does Donna love him, then?” at that point. Awwww…
Who are you? You can see that hits her right between the eyes. She’s not really entertained the thought that he doesn’t know her – despite the evidence to the contrtary.
Specs. And mouth.
He’s tempted by the spoilers
I think I’m in a minority – but I like the blue suit -:)
The death scene is extraordinary, and I remember being completely mesmerized it first time around. It’s chilling and beautiful and hard to watch. It’s also beautifully lit and beautifully shot, but unfortunately, because it’s a bit dark, none of the screencaps are that great.
Everyone – apart from Donna – knows what’s happening. I like the fact that River insists they show the proper respect - Miss Evangalista might be dead, but she's not gone yet.
She’s a footprint on the beach. And the tide’s coming in.
Then she asks for Donna
My knees go weak at the way he says that – but this is another shining moment for Donna. She’s scared and not a little bit repulsed (rather like with the dying Ood), but she steps up to the plate – partly because the Doctor asks her to, but also because she wants to help and knows it’s the right thing to do.
That was... that was horrible. That was the most horrible thing I've ever seen.
The Doctor tries to get River to spill the beans - Who are you to me?
But all he gets out of that little chat is a chicken salad
Can someone explain to me why that bit melts my brain?
While the Doctor is looking for a live one
The missus and the missus-to-be have a little chat. Donna’s all – ‘cut this personal future crap, do you know him or not?’ She just wants a straight answer.
And then River hears Donna’s name for the first time
Poor ol’ Proper Dave – two shadows
After all the little references to the Doctor’s liking to see a little shop, we find out why he likes them. They’re usually by the exit!
I know that he’s doing what he thinks is best because he wants Donna to be safe, and he knows she won’t leave him – so he gives her no choice in the matter.
Idiot.
Who turned out the lights?
Is he auditioning for Swan Lake?
No signal from the TARDIS. Uh-oh
Shock
Which quickly becomes devastation. He doesn’t move – it’s just the look in his eyes that changes. He looks like he’s about to cry :(
He’s pretty much forgotten everthing else - until River drags him away
Like Moff says in the DWC, once he’d come up with the idea of the nodes, there was no way he wasn’t going to stick the companion’s face on one, because it was the worst thing that could happen!
I know I haven’t said anything about The Girl and the world “outside” the Library yet.
One of the things I remember about watching the first time was that I didn’t have a bloody clue what was going on ‘outside’ the library, especially in FotD where we have Donna’s story playing out in that world.
It was obvious that The Girl was somehow linked to and in some cases controlling events (the flying books, for example) but I couldn’t work out why. Maybe I was being incredibly dense, but I couldn’t quite work out what was going on, and that freaked me out. Which I’m sure it was supposed to.
And then there’s the rather sinister Doctor Moon.
I knew that the little girl, and then Donna were in some sort of alternate world, and that nothing there was real, but I was pretty stumped for the rest of it. Maybe that makes me seem stupid, I don’t know, but the reason I’m saying it is because I think that’s a good thing! There’s very little in film or TV these days that surprises us, but this story did, and as far as I’m concerned, that’s great.
The next time we see Donna, we have no idea where she is or how she got there. Is she dead and this is some version of heaven? Is she in an alternate reality?
Whatever it is, the abrupt cuts in the action show us that all is not as it seems – and Donna questions it too –
Until Doctor Moon plants an alternative version of events and she immediately accepts it – it’s like he erases her version and she re-types the “correct” version, As Catherine points out in the Confidential, pre-Runaway Bride Donna would probably not have questioned anything but her time with the Doctor has changed her enough that she can’t quite let it (or him) go.
<
I remember that there were some who were annoyed by the fact that Donna’s dreamworld, or whatever you want to call it, consisted of her being happily married with kids. It was what she wanted before she met the Doctor, and now that she’s somewhere were he doesn’t exist and she doesn’t (mostly) remember him, why is it inconceivable that she’d want that sort of an existence? It also bugs the hell out of me that people seem to think that that desire somehow demeans Donna. Yes, she’s the companion from the planet awesome, but why can’t she be awesome as a wife and mum? It’s a bloody hard job, I can tell you!
At this stage, it’s her intention to stay with the Doctor ‘fovever’, so this isn’t necessarily HER dream anymore anyway; perhaps it’s more of a generic ‘this is how a matrix-like super-computer from the 51st century thinks a human woman I’ve just been nice enough to save from flesh-eating shadows would like to live” sorta thing.
I think the fact that Donna is questioning and not just blindly accepting as I imagine she’s supposed to be is what allows her to see the Doctor, and which is why she listens to what Miss Evangalista has to say later on, no matter how hard she tries to repudiate the truth of what she says.
Back at the Library, River is again questioned about her absolute faith in the Doctor
And offers him some helpful advice about how to use a sonic screwdriver. Yeah. Not the best time for that, is it?
Which, to her credit, she does realize.
Here’s where I have a bit of a moan about the anvil being dropped on our heads when Lux makes the “old married couple” comment. It feels to me like a tacked on signpost, because their behaviour towards each other is nothing like that. Well, possibly River’s is, but there’s no sense of that at all on the Doctor’s part; as far as he’s concerned, they’re just… well, arguing. He doesn’t know who she is – although he’s accepted that she knows him, and will have figured out that she knows him in the future. He’s trying to figure out how to get them out of there, he doesn’t like not being in charge, she’s throwing all these cryptic comments at him, and to cap it all, right now, he thinks Donna’s dead and that it’s his fault. So no, he’s not ‘bickering’ he’s seriously pissed off. Donna and the Doctor argued “like an old, married couple” from the get-go because of the way they were written (and because no matter what they do, when David and Catherine get together, the sparks fly.) There’s something about the speech patterns, about the rhythms and the interplay that makes OMC arguing sound different from plain arguing. Which makes no sense written down – but if you listen the two things are very different.
That face says - I really don’t care who the hell you are right now – just stop talking in fucking riddles and let me get on with getting us the hell out
Again, to her credit, River knows that, and does the only thing she can to show the Doctor he can trust her.
Whatever she says (which we later discover is his name) leaves him completely stunned
The doctor moon explained
Oh, crap
Exit, pursued by Proper Dave
In DonnaLand, she meets a mysterious veiled woman
This is one of those times when even I, with my abiding love for Ten, want to smack him for being dim!
The Vashta Nerada live on all the worlds in this system, but you hunt in forests. What are you doing in a library?
Even my kids were yelling at the TV that paper is made from wood, you idiot!
Aaaaand – the penny drops
Thing about me, I'm stupid, I talk too much, always babbling on, this gob doesn't stop for anything. Wanna know the only reason I'm still alive? Always stay near the door.
Very fortunate that he managed to stand on a trap-door :-)
All the children of this world, the same boy and the same girl, over and over again.
I continue to be completely gobsmacked at so many of the conceits in this story.
See? She’s not really all that bothered about this version of the Doctor… she wants the later model! (You have to wonder what the later model looks like though, because when you consider all the Doctor’s other incarnations so far, this one came out on top in the looks department! /shallow. Oh – maybe that’s why she’s disappointed – she thought she’d have this one to look forward to – before she realized she’s already missed the boat! /even shallower *g*)
One of his best entrances, I think (and one of his best ‘I’m hot and you know it’ poses)
Spoilers! Nobody can open a TARDIS by snapping their fingers. It doesn't work like that.
Another penny drops. Saved means just that.
In the park, Donna gets closer to the truth
The Girl doesn’t like it
(Such gorgeous hair!)
Temper temper!
Bugger
Bedtime. But you know it’s not good news when even the kids begin questioning their existence
The truth at last
Interesting. Of all the Doctor’s incarnations, Ten seems to have the strongest telepathic abilities – or maybe we’ve just seen him use them more.
Time for manic problem solving
River isn’t happy
I'll try my hardest not to die. Honestly, it's my main thing.
And now, a reminder that, of all the people in all the universe, this is the one guy you do NOT want to piss off.
For all his gregariousness, Ten is one scary bastard
Don't play games with me! You just killed someone I liked, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor and you're in the biggest library in the universe.
Look me up.
I get chills – and not just fangirly ones – at that point.
Oh dear. He’s had his arse kicked by a girl. *g*
He just can’t catch a break, can he? Here’s yet another person ready to die in order to save him. It’s happened so often, it’s a miracle he can bear to interact with anyone, EVER.
But this is more than just some random stranger sacrificing themselves… well yes, at this point River is still a stranger, but he knows that she’s someone he’ll meet at some point in his future who will become so important to him that he tells her his real name (the implication being, I suppose that the one time I could [tell her] is during a marriage ceremony or something like that).
And he’s now got to go through that relationship – whenever it happens – knowing how and when she’s going to die… and that he can’t tell her, or stop it happening.
Poor sod.
But the plan worked
Okay. How the hell did he get out of the handcuffs? He couldn’t reach the sonic screwdriver to undo them. I’m assuming there’s a missing or unfilmed scene – my view is that Donna went looking for him.
One of those scenes that illustrates just how much the Doctor and Donna understand each other, despite his gaffe. And the fact that he’s not only aware he’s blundered but that he tries to backpedal shows a lot, too.
*sniff*
Shall we peek at the end?
Clearly, they’ve both perked up enough to exchange a few flirtatious looks
And for Ten to give his tongue a bit of a work-out!
But no…
I adore River’s voice-over at the end
It’s so absolutely TRUE to who and what the Doctor is, and the last line of that section is utterly perfect.
The sequence of the Doctor belting hell for leather through the Library is the stuff of fangirl-dreams (!) – all underscored by the Series 4 version of The Doctor’s Theme which has been rearranged for choir instead of the solo mezzo-soprano that’s been used so far. I know there are some who feel that Murray Gold’s music has become too ‘big’ and overblown as the series has gone on, but I’m not one of them. I love the big, sweeping stuff that I can feel it in my gut – which is exactly what happens here. It’s meant to be an incredibly heroic moments and the music reflects that as it’s supposed to.
And there we are… River, safe (saved?) and sound and reunited with her friends. In the DWC, Euros Lyn (who directed) says
And from Steven Moffat
I love those little snippets and insights that we get from the people involved
Heroic deed done, it’s time to try one more thing…
Everybody lives… nice throwback there to Moff’s first DW story.
Sweet dreams, everyone.
Screencaps from The Medusa Cascade, The Doctor Who Screencaps Gallery and Whoverse Screencaps. Transcripts from DWCs are mine, and quotes from the show are from Who-transcripts.
Image and rambling heavy!
Season 4 has some of the darkest, weightiest stories we’ve seen in all of nu-Who, and despite the high angst-factor, it’s one of the reasons that it’s my favourite season. I like the complexities and the drama and all of that, but looking back, I wouldn’t have minded a bit more light for another episode or two. Rewatching The Unicorn and the Wasp was such a joy. Like I said in my recap, it’s a shame we didn’t get more of the Doctor and Donna in total ‘fun’ mode because they were just so damn good at it together.
I know that wasn’t possible for practical reasons, but still…
On to the Library episodes. If all Moffat’s Series 5 episodes are like this. I think my head will explode before the finale!
We’re in the land of the wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, so I don’t think I’m going to picspam my way through each episode because I suspect I’ll find myself going off at all sorts of tangents along the way and going backwards and forwards. So what I thought I’d do is pick out certain scenes or lines or plot points or other things of interest instead.
There will, of course, be a substantial number of GTPs. (Gratuitous Tennant Pics)
Oh, and pick out pretty as well. Did I not mention the pretty?
You have to love the idea that the sonic screwdriver doesn’t work on wood!
Oh, get out of the way! Sadly, there’s not a cap of Donna booting the door in!
DONNA
Did we just run away from a power cut?
DOCTOR
Possibly.
DONNA
Are we safe here?
DOCTOR
Course we're safe. There's a little shop.
One shadow…
… but what’s casting it?
I’m going to ask a question that I’m also going to answer in a minute. Why was/is there such hatred in the fandom for River Song? I regard myself as being on the very fringe of DW fandom, if that, but even I came across the River-hate.
I love Alex Kingston, I thought she was great in the role and I’m delighted to hear that she’ll be back next season. She might have been a bit of a pain in the arse at times, yes, but that’s no reason for the vitriol I was seeing, surely?
DOCTOR
Oh, you're not, are you? Tell me you're not archaeologists.
RIVER
Got a problem with archaeologists?
DOCTOR
I'm a time traveller. I point and laugh at archaeologists.
As far as I can see there are two or three reasons for it – and please feel free to correct me or contribute more.
1. For me, this seems to be the main reason people disliked her – she usurped the role of the companion, especially in FotD
2 Doctor/whoever shippers didn’t like some woman barging in on their shippy patch acting like she was the missus
3. River was a mouthy know-it-all.
Er. That last one? What’s Ten if he’s not a mouthy know-it-all? Or Donna, for that matter.
2. is just stupid. I’ve said this before about Rose. The Doctor is over 900 years old and it’s ridiculous to think that he’d have loved only once in such a long life. We know he had children at some point, so presumably he had a wife or partner that he, also presumably, loved. He loved Rose, he loved Reinette – hell, he loved her enough to get stuck in the 18th Century with her! – I believe he loved Sarah-Jane romantically as well at some point, and I also think that he could well have felt that way about Donna, had she stuck around for longer, despite all their protestations. So what's so wrong about him being in love quite a long way in the future? (I’m assuming here that River’s not a time traveller in her own right, and that when we see her in S5, it’ll be because the Doctor is in the 51st century again)
Are they all looking scared enough?
The Doctor doesn’t think so
Heh.
DOCTOR
Almost every species in the universe has an irrational fear of the dark. But they're wrong. Cos it's not irrational. It's Vashta Nerada.
DONNA
What's Vashta Nerada?
DOCTOR
It's what's in the dark. It's what's always in the dark.
And now – proof that Steven Moffat understands fangirls!
RIVER
Pretty Boy, with me I said.
DOCTOR
Oh, I'm Pretty Boy?
DONNA
Yes. Ooh, that came out a bit quick!
DOCTOR
Pretty?!
DONNA
Meh.
From this scene, it’s clear (to me, at least!) that River has never met the Doctor in his tenth incarnation. And I think that perhaps she’s seen him in more than one ‘version’, because it explains why she’s being so familiar with him when she arrives. She sent him a message, he’s there, therefore he’s the Doctor – doesn’t matter if he looks like ‘her’ Doctor or not. So future!Doctor has either told her about regeneration, or she’s seen it, or she’s seen him before and after one or perhaps even two.
But she’s not seen him as Ten, so future!Doctor has obviously never filled her in on what he looked like in his past. She makes at least two comments about his ‘youth’, which to me implies that ‘her’ Doctor is much older.
I mean, if he’s ‘young’ at 904 (I know that’s debatable, but let’s take Rusty’s word for it for the sake of argument), he’s not going to be ‘old’ at, say, 924, is he? We also know that she doesn’t travel with him all the time, so whatever their relationship is, it’s not settled down with a mortgage and a cat! Just before she dies, she talks about him turning up on her doorstep, from which I infer that he goes off on his own sometimes, which I think makes sense. He’s too much of a wanderer to be completely happy staying in one place, and besides, if he’s at home drinking cocoa and wearing slippers, who’s out there saving the universe?
My eldest asked “does Donna love him, then?” at that point. Awwww…
Who are you? You can see that hits her right between the eyes. She’s not really entertained the thought that he doesn’t know her – despite the evidence to the contrtary.
Specs. And mouth.
He’s tempted by the spoilers
I think I’m in a minority – but I like the blue suit -:)
DOCTOR
Well, funny thing, Mr Lux, I don't want to see everyone in this room dead because some idiot thinks his pride is more important.
RIVER
Then why don't you sign his contract? I didn't either. I'm getting worse than you.
The death scene is extraordinary, and I remember being completely mesmerized it first time around. It’s chilling and beautiful and hard to watch. It’s also beautifully lit and beautifully shot, but unfortunately, because it’s a bit dark, none of the screencaps are that great.
Everyone – apart from Donna – knows what’s happening. I like the fact that River insists they show the proper respect - Miss Evangalista might be dead, but she's not gone yet.
She’s a footprint on the beach. And the tide’s coming in.
Then she asks for Donna
DOCTOR
Help her.
DONNA
She's dead.
DOCTOR
Yeah. Help her.
My knees go weak at the way he says that – but this is another shining moment for Donna. She’s scared and not a little bit repulsed (rather like with the dying Ood), but she steps up to the plate – partly because the Doctor asks her to, but also because she wants to help and knows it’s the right thing to do.
That was... that was horrible. That was the most horrible thing I've ever seen.
The Doctor tries to get River to spill the beans - Who are you to me?
But all he gets out of that little chat is a chicken salad
Can someone explain to me why that bit melts my brain?
While the Doctor is looking for a live one
The missus and the missus-to-be have a little chat. Donna’s all – ‘cut this personal future crap, do you know him or not?’ She just wants a straight answer.
And then River hears Donna’s name for the first time
DOCTOR
The piranhas of the air, the Vashta Nerada. Literally "the shadows that melt the flesh". Most planets have them, but usually in small clusters. I've never seen an infestation on this scale, or this aggressive.
DONNA
What d'you mean, most planets? Not Earth?
DOCTOR
Mmmm, Earth, and a billion other worlds. Where there's meat, there's Vashta Nerada. You can see them sometimes, if you look. The dust in sunbeams.
DONNA
If they were on Earth, we'd know.
DOCTOR
Nah, normally they live on road kill. But sometimes people go missing. Not everyone comes back out of the dark.
RIVER
Every shadow?
DOCTOR
No. But any shadow.
RIVER
So what do we do?
DOCTOR
Daleks - aim for the eyestalk. Sontarans - back of the neck. Vashta Nerada... Run! Just run.
Poor ol’ Proper Dave – two shadows
After all the little references to the Doctor’s liking to see a little shop, we find out why he likes them. They’re usually by the exit!
I know that he’s doing what he thinks is best because he wants Donna to be safe, and he knows she won’t leave him – so he gives her no choice in the matter.
Idiot.
Who turned out the lights?
Is he auditioning for Swan Lake?
No signal from the TARDIS. Uh-oh
Shock
Which quickly becomes devastation. He doesn’t move – it’s just the look in his eyes that changes. He looks like he’s about to cry :(
He’s pretty much forgotten everthing else - until River drags him away
Like Moff says in the DWC, once he’d come up with the idea of the nodes, there was no way he wasn’t going to stick the companion’s face on one, because it was the worst thing that could happen!
I know I haven’t said anything about The Girl and the world “outside” the Library yet.
One of the things I remember about watching the first time was that I didn’t have a bloody clue what was going on ‘outside’ the library, especially in FotD where we have Donna’s story playing out in that world.
It was obvious that The Girl was somehow linked to and in some cases controlling events (the flying books, for example) but I couldn’t work out why. Maybe I was being incredibly dense, but I couldn’t quite work out what was going on, and that freaked me out. Which I’m sure it was supposed to.
And then there’s the rather sinister Doctor Moon.
I knew that the little girl, and then Donna were in some sort of alternate world, and that nothing there was real, but I was pretty stumped for the rest of it. Maybe that makes me seem stupid, I don’t know, but the reason I’m saying it is because I think that’s a good thing! There’s very little in film or TV these days that surprises us, but this story did, and as far as I’m concerned, that’s great.
The next time we see Donna, we have no idea where she is or how she got there. Is she dead and this is some version of heaven? Is she in an alternate reality?
Whatever it is, the abrupt cuts in the action show us that all is not as it seems – and Donna questions it too –
Until Doctor Moon plants an alternative version of events and she immediately accepts it – it’s like he erases her version and she re-types the “correct” version, As Catherine points out in the Confidential, pre-Runaway Bride Donna would probably not have questioned anything but her time with the Doctor has changed her enough that she can’t quite let it (or him) go.
<
I remember that there were some who were annoyed by the fact that Donna’s dreamworld, or whatever you want to call it, consisted of her being happily married with kids. It was what she wanted before she met the Doctor, and now that she’s somewhere were he doesn’t exist and she doesn’t (mostly) remember him, why is it inconceivable that she’d want that sort of an existence? It also bugs the hell out of me that people seem to think that that desire somehow demeans Donna. Yes, she’s the companion from the planet awesome, but why can’t she be awesome as a wife and mum? It’s a bloody hard job, I can tell you!
At this stage, it’s her intention to stay with the Doctor ‘fovever’, so this isn’t necessarily HER dream anymore anyway; perhaps it’s more of a generic ‘this is how a matrix-like super-computer from the 51st century thinks a human woman I’ve just been nice enough to save from flesh-eating shadows would like to live” sorta thing.
I think the fact that Donna is questioning and not just blindly accepting as I imagine she’s supposed to be is what allows her to see the Doctor, and which is why she listens to what Miss Evangalista has to say later on, no matter how hard she tries to repudiate the truth of what she says.
Back at the Library, River is again questioned about her absolute faith in the Doctor
And offers him some helpful advice about how to use a sonic screwdriver. Yeah. Not the best time for that, is it?
Which, to her credit, she does realize.
Here’s where I have a bit of a moan about the anvil being dropped on our heads when Lux makes the “old married couple” comment. It feels to me like a tacked on signpost, because their behaviour towards each other is nothing like that. Well, possibly River’s is, but there’s no sense of that at all on the Doctor’s part; as far as he’s concerned, they’re just… well, arguing. He doesn’t know who she is – although he’s accepted that she knows him, and will have figured out that she knows him in the future. He’s trying to figure out how to get them out of there, he doesn’t like not being in charge, she’s throwing all these cryptic comments at him, and to cap it all, right now, he thinks Donna’s dead and that it’s his fault. So no, he’s not ‘bickering’ he’s seriously pissed off. Donna and the Doctor argued “like an old, married couple” from the get-go because of the way they were written (and because no matter what they do, when David and Catherine get together, the sparks fly.) There’s something about the speech patterns, about the rhythms and the interplay that makes OMC arguing sound different from plain arguing. Which makes no sense written down – but if you listen the two things are very different.
That face says - I really don’t care who the hell you are right now – just stop talking in fucking riddles and let me get on with getting us the hell out
Again, to her credit, River knows that, and does the only thing she can to show the Doctor he can trust her.
Whatever she says (which we later discover is his name) leaves him completely stunned
The doctor moon explained
Oh, crap
Exit, pursued by Proper Dave
In DonnaLand, she meets a mysterious veiled woman
DONNA
I got your note last night. "The world is wrong", what's that mean?
MISS EVANGELISTA
No, you didn't.
DONNA
I'm sorry, what?
MISS EVANGELISTA
You didn't get my note last night. You got it a few seconds ago. Having decided to come, you suddenly found yourself arriving. That is how time progresses here, in the manner of a dream. You've suspected that before, haven't you, Donna Noble?
This is one of those times when even I, with my abiding love for Ten, want to smack him for being dim!
The Vashta Nerada live on all the worlds in this system, but you hunt in forests. What are you doing in a library?
Even my kids were yelling at the TV that paper is made from wood, you idiot!
Aaaaand – the penny drops
Thing about me, I'm stupid, I talk too much, always babbling on, this gob doesn't stop for anything. Wanna know the only reason I'm still alive? Always stay near the door.
Very fortunate that he managed to stand on a trap-door :-)
All the children of this world, the same boy and the same girl, over and over again.
I continue to be completely gobsmacked at so many of the conceits in this story.
You know when you see a photograph of someone you know, but it's from years before you knew them? It's like they're not quite... finished, they're not done yet. Well... yes, the Doctor's here. He came when I called, just like he always does. But not my Doctor. Now my Doctor... I've seen whole armies turn and run away. And he'd just swagger off back to his TARDIS and open the doors with a snap of his fingers. The Doctor... in the TARDIS... next stop: everywhere.
See? She’s not really all that bothered about this version of the Doctor… she wants the later model! (You have to wonder what the later model looks like though, because when you consider all the Doctor’s other incarnations so far, this one came out on top in the looks department! /shallow. Oh – maybe that’s why she’s disappointed – she thought she’d have this one to look forward to – before she realized she’s already missed the boat! /even shallower *g*)
One of his best entrances, I think (and one of his best ‘I’m hot and you know it’ poses)
Spoilers! Nobody can open a TARDIS by snapping their fingers. It doesn't work like that.
Another penny drops. Saved means just that.
In the park, Donna gets closer to the truth
The Girl doesn’t like it
(Such gorgeous hair!)
MISS EVANGELISTA
She's not real. They're fictions. I'm sorry, but now that you understand that, you won't be able to keep a hold. They are sustained only by your belief.
DONNA
You don't know, you don't have children!
MISS EVANGELISTA
Neither do you.
Temper temper!
Bugger
Bedtime. But you know it’s not good news when even the kids begin questioning their existence
The truth at last
MR LUX
She's not in the computer. In a way, she is the computer. The main command node. This is CAL.
DOCTOR
CAL is a child! A child hooked up to a mainframe? Why didn't you tell me this? I needed to know this!
MR LUX
Because she's family! CAL... Charlotte Abigail Lux. My grandfather's youngest daughter. She was dying, so he built her a library, and put her living mind inside, with a moon to watch over her, and all of human history to pass the time, any era to live in, any book to read. She loved books more than anything. He gave her them all. He asked only that she be left in peace. A secret, not a freak show.
DOCTOR
So you weren't protecting a patent, you were protecting her.
MR LUX
This is only half a life, of course. But it's for ever.
DOCTOR
And she saved them. She saved everyone in the Library, folded them into her dreams and kept them safe.
ANITA
Then why didn't she tell us?
DOCTOR
Because she's forgotten. She's got over 4,000 living minds chatting away inside her head, it must be like... being... well, me.
Interesting. Of all the Doctor’s incarnations, Ten seems to have the strongest telepathic abilities – or maybe we’ve just seen him use them more.
Time for manic problem solving
River isn’t happy
I'll try my hardest not to die. Honestly, it's my main thing.
And now, a reminder that, of all the people in all the universe, this is the one guy you do NOT want to piss off.
For all his gregariousness, Ten is one scary bastard
Don't play games with me! You just killed someone I liked, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor and you're in the biggest library in the universe.
Look me up.
I get chills – and not just fangirly ones – at that point.
Oh dear. He’s had his arse kicked by a girl. *g*
He just can’t catch a break, can he? Here’s yet another person ready to die in order to save him. It’s happened so often, it’s a miracle he can bear to interact with anyone, EVER.
But this is more than just some random stranger sacrificing themselves… well yes, at this point River is still a stranger, but he knows that she’s someone he’ll meet at some point in his future who will become so important to him that he tells her his real name (the implication being, I suppose that the one time I could [tell her] is during a marriage ceremony or something like that).
And he’s now got to go through that relationship – whenever it happens – knowing how and when she’s going to die… and that he can’t tell her, or stop it happening.
Poor sod.
But the plan worked
Okay. How the hell did he get out of the handcuffs? He couldn’t reach the sonic screwdriver to undo them. I’m assuming there’s a missing or unfilmed scene – my view is that Donna went looking for him.
One of those scenes that illustrates just how much the Doctor and Donna understand each other, despite his gaffe. And the fact that he’s not only aware he’s blundered but that he tries to backpedal shows a lot, too.
DONNA
Are you all right?
DOCTOR
I'm always all right.
DONNA
Is "all right" special Time Lord code for... "really not all right at all"?
DOCTOR
Why?
DONNA
Cos I'm "all right", too.
*sniff*
Shall we peek at the end?
Clearly, they’ve both perked up enough to exchange a few flirtatious looks
And for Ten to give his tongue a bit of a work-out!
But no…
I adore River’s voice-over at the end
When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it will never end. But however hard you try, you can't run for ever. Everybody knows that everybody dies, and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever, for one moment accepts it.
It’s so absolutely TRUE to who and what the Doctor is, and the last line of that section is utterly perfect.
The sequence of the Doctor belting hell for leather through the Library is the stuff of fangirl-dreams (!) – all underscored by the Series 4 version of The Doctor’s Theme which has been rearranged for choir instead of the solo mezzo-soprano that’s been used so far. I know there are some who feel that Murray Gold’s music has become too ‘big’ and overblown as the series has gone on, but I’m not one of them. I love the big, sweeping stuff that I can feel it in my gut – which is exactly what happens here. It’s meant to be an incredibly heroic moments and the music reflects that as it’s supposed to.
And there we are… River, safe (saved?) and sound and reunited with her friends. In the DWC, Euros Lyn (who directed) says
We definitely wanted to suggest that this is a kind of heaven… a kind of metaphor for heaven… a beautiful, calm, serene green place where they can live happily ever after.
And from Steven Moffat
If you believe in a soul then you would say she’s not in the computer that’s just a copy of her, that’s just her mind and her memories
If you don’t believe in a soul, like me, then you think that that IS her, then that’s everything about her, that’s the crucial mental datapreserved perfectly within that computer; there’s nothing else to keep.
Given the absolute choice between oblivion and all of human history and all of human literature, then I’ll take all of human history and all of human literature, I think that sounds quite a good retirement plan – that’s about as close to heaven as you’re going to get, and that’s what the Doctor gives River at the end – he gives her an enternal retirement.
I love those little snippets and insights that we get from the people involved
Everybody knows that everybody dies. But not every day. Not today… Some days are special. Some days are so, so blessed. Some days, nobody dies at all.
Heroic deed done, it’s time to try one more thing…
Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, when the wind stands fair, and the Doctor comes to call... everybody lives.
Everybody lives… nice throwback there to Moff’s first DW story.
Sweet dreams, everyone.
Screencaps from The Medusa Cascade, The Doctor Who Screencaps Gallery and Whoverse Screencaps. Transcripts from DWCs are mine, and quotes from the show are from Who-transcripts.
Image and rambling heavy!
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no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 10:41 pm (UTC)She must have, though, cos she's all "what
sexadventures have we done so far?" and that would make no sense if she's asking "have we done this thing I do with the next you?"But then I ship Ten/River hardcore.
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Date: 2010-03-20 10:49 pm (UTC)But it's all open to interpretation - maybe we'll get something in S5 that tells us definitively, although I doubt it,
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Date: 2010-03-20 11:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 11:09 pm (UTC)This is the problem with the wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey; hard to follow!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 11:11 pm (UTC)Did you know that Steven Moffat is non-linear IRL? He is currently ten years old.
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Date: 2010-03-20 11:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 11:33 pm (UTC)I hope they are not all dark and heart-wrenching.. then it would be too drama. I'd like some humorous and fun adventures like the UW and PiC.
You have to love the idea that the sonic screwdriver doesn’t work on wood!
Is it not working on wood? I've never heard that to be true previously for the sonic screwdriver. I thought it was more that he was taking too long for Donna's liking, so she decided to take matters into her own hands.
As far as I can see there are two or three reasons for it – and please feel free to correct me or contribute more...
3. River was a mouthy know-it-all.
I can't say I'm much of a fan of River. She just rubbed me the wrong way in that two-parter, but perhaps you are right about point 3. She does seem to take charge a bit quick and proves too knowledgeable of stuff that doesn't make sense from the audience's POV. Also, her vague relationship with the Doctor added to the often assumed martial status, doesn't sit right with me. I feel like I'm force feed someone and expected to immediately except her (of course, that's probably what the Doctor feels like as well).
Despite this, I'm still wiling to give River Song a chance. I hope that her showing in series 5 will aid us in better understanding her and answering some of the questions brought up about her in the Library two-parter.
Which quickly becomes devastation. He doesn’t move – it’s just the look in his eyes that changes. He looks like he’s about to cry :(
I thought he was going to cry too! :D
I also couldn't help but also see parallelism between this event and the event of when he killed the Rachnoss.
Here’s where I have a bit of a moan about the anvil being dropped on our heads when Lux makes the “old married couple” comment. It feels to me like a tacked on signpost, because their behaviour towards each other is nothing like that.
I agree with you on this point. They didn't sound like an 'old marry couple' to me either. Donna and the Doctor sound like one more than River and the Doctor definitely.
As for Donna's alternate universe life, I liked it. I mean, I do think it was created off a general virtual life, drawing somewhat from Donna's own wishes (whether old or current). I especially liked Leon. Seriously, I think he and her in the real universe could have made a good couple, but obviously, that is unlikely unless she stayed in that time with him, or he traveled back to her time, which is what I'm currently writing at the moment.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 11:45 pm (UTC)The DWC (the long version) for the episode actually mentions the fact that the sonic screwdriver has now been written so it doesn't work on wood! There's a whole segment in the programme about DW 'mythology' which talks about that and other bits and pieces.
I feel like I'm force feed someone and expected to immediately except her (of course, that's probably what the Doctor feels like as well).
Yes, exactly - I think we're meant to feel the way he feels, which is clearly very suspicious and also a bit peeved becasue she's taking over which is normally what he does. But I think she softened a bit when she realised that he really didn't know her and that somehow, her message had reached him too early, because she was able to understand why he was behaving towards her the way he did.
The Doctor and Donna are lawfully biodamped! *g*
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 04:06 am (UTC)Despite lack of airtime together, this scene does some quality Doctor/Donna interaction. I love the Doctor's thumb-stroke-of-comfort after Donna talks to Miss Evangelista, and the 'Alright' scene completely sums up their relationship and why I love it. The Doctor can be cluelessly rude sometimes and for him to backpedal so furiously shows how much he respects Donna, while the fact that Donna readily accepts his apology shows how deep an understanding she has of him. They've both matured a lot from they're meeting in S3 (remember how tactless he was with Martha, and what a hair-trigger temper she had?), and the 'Alright' dialogue just shows how comfortable they are with one another, that they don't need to put up a strong front. They're allowed to be upset and not have to worry about facing some sort of rejection.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 12:20 pm (UTC)it's just that there is woefully very little Doctor/Donna interaction throughout S4, when you compare it to Doctor/Rose or Martha in the other seasons, so anytime a character comes in who threatens to decrease the Doctor/Donna airtime, I don't really like them.
I get that completely and tbh, I feel the same - like I said, I wish we'd had a couple more of the fun episodes. I could happily have done without The Doctor's Daughter, despite the fact that it did have some good moments in it, and would have traded it, no problem, for another more Doctor-and-Donna-are-awesome-together episode.
I like that both the Doctor and Donna don't feel the need to pretend with each other. For Donna, in particular, that's a really big thing because she's so insecure about herself - so letting herself just BE herself with this amazing, incredible man shows an incredible amount of trust. And for the Doctor to be able to let his defences down with her is a huge thing for him too - he's a planet/galaxy/universe saving alien with the weight of time on his shoulders, but with her, he doesn't need to prove it or keep up an act. He knows she can see through his bullshit so he doesn't try to pull it.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 07:53 am (UTC)It's sad, but it seems that fandom often chews up confident, competent women and spits them out. Sure, River was a bit of a know-it-all, but that is what I loved about her. She probably picked a lot of that up from the Doctor, honestly -- especially if they had 'gone back years', as she states. Companions start to become 'Doctor-like' all the time, why should she be any different?
Oh, and I absolutely love the blue suit as well, so you are not alone.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 12:23 pm (UTC)Yay for the blue-suit-love!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 09:21 am (UTC)Season 4 has some of the darkest, weightiest stories we’ve seen in all of nu-Who
I know that's not really how they write the episodes, at all. But part of me still thinks that at some point they decided Catherine Tate was a great crier and then they decided to bring on the SAD.
As for the River-hate, I think ebony_steinbach was on to something about all the lack of Doctor/Donna interaction in the episode...
I do like River sometimes. She's feisty and independent. But I cannot stand the soul-rendering puppy dog eyes. It's understandable to a certain extent that she's devastated that it's not *her* Doctor, but presumably she seems very acquainted with the wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey of an intimate relationship with a time traveler (diaries!). But despite this intellectual realization and her stated adherence to this anti-"spoilers" policy, she's dropping clues left and right, with the insistence that somehow he *must* remember how important she is. This is totally understandable that emotionally she's not where she is intellectually yet, but those incredibly mixed messages she keeps sending are also a little infuriating.
In short, Donna quote: "What are you talking about? Are you just talking rubbish? Do you know him or don't you?"
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 12:34 pm (UTC)I think the continual dropping of clues was one of the things that really frustrated me about River first time around - and possibly it was meant to. Seeing her through the Doctor's eyes, you could tell he was intrigued but incredibly suspicious and annoyed - and perhaps, we were meant to feel the same way. It's also just occurred to me that our reaction to her could well be the same reaction that other characters have when the Doctor himself turns up and takes charge of the situation! Except we, the audience, know he's the Doctor and that it's what he does - but when someone else does it he - and by extension, we don't like it!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 12:09 pm (UTC)I'm also in the camp that definitely believes that she knows Ten as well as Eleven. (Eleven is her Doctor, but she likes Ten too.) The diary is the history of everything that SHE has done with the Doctor not what the Doctor has done with her. She has experienced everything that she wrote in the diary and the Doctor doesn't know what's in it. For her to go through various events says to me that these are things she did with Ten. However, I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree with you on this.
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Date: 2010-03-21 12:30 pm (UTC)But yeah, agreeing to differ is good - life would be boring if we all thought the same!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 05:38 pm (UTC)River will know the Doctor. Fair enough. Interesting even.
River and the Doctor fall for each other, again fair's fair. Don't particularly like it but ok, he cares about his companions, sometimes the line wobbles.
I didn't like River, most of all because she doesn't like the Doctor. Or more precisely, that particular version of the Doctor.
And again the comparison with Rose here, who wasn't too keen on the Doctor suddenly changing on her (either time), it's kinda a slap to me who likes to consider the Doctor as a continuum of people, rather than completely separate ones.
Even without the 'why don't you remember me?' angle, which is understandable, she has this 'you're not the Doctor', I mean would you think that nu!companions would take a look at any of the previous ones would go 'well, you're simply not good enough', at least not for the extended period that River does.
But I don't hate her, just don't like her.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 06:18 pm (UTC)Yeah, she did keep comparing him unfavourably with the later version. Which is pretty weird if you start to think about it in any depth. I don't like the idea that regeneration is death either - I've said elsewhere that while I don't want Smith doing an impression of Tennant, I don't want Ten to have disappeared completely. That's the point of regeneration in the first place, to be able to continue the show while changing the lead actor.
On a very shallow level River's attitude is hard to understand - I mean her bloke looks like David Tennant! What's she complaining about?!! *g*
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 09:15 pm (UTC)I do love the blue suit..would prefer no suit though! ;)
I loved SITL/FOTD, my little cousin couldn't sleep with the light off after both episodes..hilarious, but worth it.
There always seemed to be a lot of River Song hate, but I liked her (not just because I adore Alex Kingston more than words can say). I felt The Doctor met his match with her, I loved the chemistry between DT and AK. I'm thrilled she's returning, I never felt her character was 'done', and I'd say she's possibly the most important (or at least *one* of the most important) characters in DW..correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think The Doctor has revealed his real name to anyone, and I think that makes her not only important but incredibly fascinating in how she gained the trust and respect for him to tell her. Also, love that last screencap of River, she look stunning
Lovely read that deconstruction was, you brought up points I never noticed or thought about. Gave me real food for thought (not real food, but you know what I mean).
The 'Swan Lake' caption and screencap made me giggle too. :D
Oh, and thanks for the pretty Tennant pics. Pretty pretty pretty.
And how did you resist the urge to go uber-fangirl with the handcuff screencaps?? *applauds* xD
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 10:41 pm (UTC)I can't say I loved River off the bat, but I was prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt, taking into account all the factors that came up while I was writing the recap and in comments. I'm looking forward to seeing her again. As far as I know, the Doctor has never told anyone his name - well, nobody that we've met or heard of, although I suppose his wife, or whoever was the mother of his children would have known it.
As for the handcuffs - I really was admirably restrained, wasn't I? *g*
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 10:11 pm (UTC)Because it is Hot! And he does the flippy thing.
My brain is too melted by the timey wimey (or the pretty boy) to make sense. I'll come back.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 10:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-22 05:22 am (UTC)If River was going to meet the Doctor sometime in the far distant future (after the Doctor and Donna have had a long happy life together), i could get that, but by the time i became a Whovian it was already known that River would be in series five. It's too soon, i'm still too raw about Donna. i totally agree with it being okay for Donna to want to be a mum, but i do not think that Shawn was the right way to give her that. i also completely agree about the fighting like a married couple objection. In fact, River fighting the Doctor is part of what bothered me, as when he's grieving he goes into Oncoming Storm mode and it's best to just get out of the way. Only Donna has proven to be capable of gently deflecting that energy in a way to make it even more useful.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-22 04:15 pm (UTC)I hope that, as we see more of her - and I'm hoping that the next time she appears will be her first meeting with the Doctor - in her chronology, that is - we'll get to see just why the Doctor falls for her and what it is about her that he comes to love and trust so deeply.
I couldn't have handled that with Ten (because of Donna) - although I still stand by my belief that other than here, River never met the Doctor as Ten - but I'm interested in seeing the dynamic between Alex and Matt Smith.
Only Donna has proven to be capable of gently deflecting that energy in a way to make it even more useful.
Yes. THIS.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-23 03:22 am (UTC)Not only that, but Donna is totally jealous watching them together.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-23 09:26 am (UTC)Despite CT's assertion in the DWC that Donna's 'jealousy' is due to the fact that she loves travelling with the Doctor and doesn't want some other woman taking her place in the TARDIS - I think she's talking rubbish!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-22 11:06 pm (UTC)I would like to weigh in either way on the, 'has she seen Ten before?' thing but it hurts my brain. The first time round it was clear to me she had seen that face before, cos she looks at it and tries to work out where he is from looking at it. And yea, why is she all, 'have we done that yet?' if his face was different when it happened? And if she thinks he is a future version then obviously you've done it already cos he is no longer the person you did it with, daft woman. What is that about? But I noticed this time she is looking into his eyes. Has she learnt a way to tell how old a time lord is? "Nah, but you are. Your eyes. You're younger than I've ever seen you." Cos if she is going to meet eleven he is going to look even younger isn't he? Did they write it thinking she could come back in the next series and meet Ten. I dont understand. The thing with you know when you see a photo? She doesnt say "and they look like a completely different person" I was sure she knew that face. For that reason I was hyper puzzled when Ten was about to die not having met her. Am i just thick? Am i Thick Thick Thickity Thick Face from Thicktown, Thickania?
I love her little hah she does when she does the "Look at you! You're
hot like thisyoung" But I like her cos i think she genuinely doesnt care what he looks like. She is intimate with this man and then he turns up looking like that and she obviously really fancies that but that doesnt blind her to fact he isnt the man she loves yet.no subject
Date: 2010-03-22 11:46 pm (UTC)That is a lot of loving to be doing in the space of four years tho isnt it? I think id like it more if there had been less.
I believed he loved Rose and she him. And that was Ok. i didn't think he loved Reinette, fancied her sure. Ok i was a bit troubled by that being there in the middle of the Rose story. I dont know why he loves Rose. But I am asked to believe he does and Ok fine but I dont know why they are cheapening it for me by having him carry on with the king's mistress.
And Im fine with Sarah Jane, cos that was another man.
I didnt want he and Donna to be anything but platonic cos i was bored of Martha's crush. And because it was too soon after Rose. And mainly cos i love how they love each other and I didnt need them to love each other different. Wasnt broke. Doesnt need fixing.
So i rolled my eyes and sighed when they brought on another woman who was the love of his life. Especially, I think, because I was quite certain she had known that face. I thought it was starting to make the doctor look fickle and shallow. And no one wants to think the doctor is fickle and shallow. But if, as you say, she is the love of Twelve's life. Then I can accept if it is later in his personal timeline. But maybe because we are are human, and have human brains, people can't separate all those loves because they are close together in my personal timeline. What i am trying to say is ,maybe people Riverhate because:
4. They dont want Ten to behave like a cheap tart because they love him and want to believe in him ( and sexism means if a man is behaving badly then the strong sexy woman must have made him do it, so they hate her cos they can't hate him)
Actually I like that, that she is love of Twelve's life. Ooh and maybe he only loves Rose cos Nine does. And that is why he cant tell her.
If I accept that, then maybe Donna can be the love of Ten's life? Even more heartbreaking like that tho.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-23 12:40 am (UTC)Ten could have met River for the first time FOR HER sometime between JE and EoT.., but I don't see that happening because of where he was in his head at that point. He didn't want another companion after Donna and it makes no sense - to me, at least - for him to go looking for River. Why would he? He knows how and when she dies and feels responsible. Why would he seek her out and torture himself by being with her having that knowledge? (Especially when the Universe is torturing him quite nicely on its own, thank you!) Yes, he'll have to cope with that in the future, but I can't see him wanting to do that as Ten at that point in his 'personal timeline'.
I really think River initially believes he's a future version of 'her' Doctor, which is why she gets out the diary so matter-of-factly and plunges in without worrying about the spoilers. I think that her comment about his eyes is important - she's not talking about his face when she says he's young.
I don't know what he saw in Rose, either. Rose and Nine were great, and I really believed they loved each other. But when Ten appeared, she was gobsmacked by the pretty and turned into a simpering fangirl.
I'm quite happy to think of Donna as the love of Ten's life. Heartbreaking and truly tragic :-(
no subject
Date: 2010-05-10 02:15 am (UTC)I'm sorry I'm very late to this party but I just wanted to comment on a couple of things you said upthread -
About CT's comments about Donna's jealousy of River Song:
Since Donna really believes she's 'not that special' I can believe that her jeaously is driven by a fear of being kicked off the TARDIS. River, convinced of her own importance, seems to have a bigger, more important claim on the Doctor than she, Donna, has. From Donna's POV, what's to keep the Doctor from taking her back to Chiswick and dumping her in favor of a 'better, more important offer'? Why would the Doctor choose her over River Song? River Song is obviously special, Donna doesn't believe she herself is. If I were in her shoes (ha - and who wouldn't want to with so much pretty around - hee), I'd be worried too. I wouldn't want to go home and give up a life travelling with the Doctor either.
As for Ten/Donna do they/don't they, would they ever/they never ever would, I prefer to think of these two characters as soul mates. I think their relationship is quieter and deeper than the Ten/Rose relationship. Rose was in love with the Doctor and he with her. I think Ten/Donna are not *in* love, they just love each other deeply in a way that transcends passion and is beyond physical love. It's more mature, quieter, and, dare I say, 'eternal'? Rose/Ten burns hot. Ten/Donna are like embers that never go out.
I remember in TEoT when Ten is talking to Wilf in the cafe and he breaks down when he says, "I need..." and my heart just skipped a beat for the character because I was hoping against hope he was going to end that sentence by saying, "I need ...Donna," or , "I need...her back...", something along those lines. But that would've been too corny, I guess. (As if sending Saint!Rose off with The Handyman and her selfish attitude of, "One of you lot better tell me you love me," didn't have its own stink of cheese...)
However, I'm not stressed about who romantically loves who because I think Ten/Donna get each other in a way none of the other companions did. (Plus, there's plenty of molto bene fanfic to entertain romantic adventures, if that's where your imagination pulls you!) Ten/Donna didn't need to be proven or spoken aloud. It didn't need declarations to the world, it just was, whether RTD intended it that way or not.
DT/CT played very well together - their chemistry was so much fun to watch. I never rolled my eyes watching them together like I did Ten/Rose in Seasons 2. Oh yeah, and like I did watching that horrible "Wuthering Heights" run down the street Ten/Rose did in The Stolen Earth. I swear to God, I almost strained an eyeball with that one...I thought I had blinded myself.
Whenever the running gag came up, "No, no, no,...we're not a couple...," I always thought two things, "Of course you are," and "Methinks thou dost protest too much."
Anyway, sorry to ramble on. I better quit because I sense I am becoming tedious. Thanks for letting me comment!
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Date: 2010-05-10 08:13 am (UTC)What you say about the love between them not needing to be said goes back to one of the things I've been saying for a while on the subject of SHOW not TELL - because Ten and Donna is the ONE time you can see love on screen (because I saw absolutely nothing to convince me that Ten loved Rose - more about that here (http://caz963.livejournal.com/345407.html)) and I believe if there had been anyone 'forever' for him it would have been Donna. I've likened it to a marriage without the sex, and in my head, that's what it was/is.
The good thing about the EoT scene was that, in the end, it DIDN'T need saying - the Doctor couldn't take his eyes off Donna, and whether that was direction or down to David's knowing his character better than anyone I don't know (I suspect the latter).
Whenever the running gag came up, "No, no, no,...we're not a couple...," I always thought two things, "Of course you are," and "Methinks thou dost protest too much."
Definitely. Same here :-)
And don't apologise for long comments - I love 'em!
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Date: 2010-12-02 01:22 pm (UTC)I can accept this, but those scenes look awfully 21st century. I wonder if Lee found his home terribly primitive. This story also makes me wonder how much money BBC spent at Ikea.
For the record, I love the blue suit.
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Date: 2010-12-02 05:01 pm (UTC)I'm glad I'm not alone in my blue-suit-love :-)
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Date: 2010-12-02 05:08 pm (UTC)Am I making sense? Sometimes I don't make sense.
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Date: 2010-12-02 08:23 pm (UTC)Sometimes I miss things...
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Date: 2010-12-02 07:09 pm (UTC)But there's a difference between being told that and being shown that. We were told she was important while being presented with a, well, rude character who did absolutely nothing initially to cause us to like her.
While I do think their story can be epic, and has all of the correct elements for a tragic romance/whatever throughout time, it just...didn't work for me (and the majority of viewers). And that disappoints me, because on the surface? The whole: "I met the love of my life on the day she died" concept? Should have been AWESOME.
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Date: 2010-12-02 08:21 pm (UTC)Yeah, and it fell a bit flat, really. Someone over at the rewatch comm made a really good point about how crappy it must be for the Doctor now, to know that he HAS to have a relationahip with this woman - not just because she's going to save his life one day, but also because he's got to maintain the timelines.
ITA agree about the "show vs. tell" thing as well. Not only does River come across as smug and irritating, she's also presented as "the other woman" - someting else which isn't exactly going to endear her to a large percentage of the audience.