He WHAT???

[caz963]

DO. NOT. WANT.



I mean, serioualy, WHAT. THE. FUCK.?

We get 13 episodes plus a Christmas special per year. I'm happy with that, because I think that once you start getting series that are longer than 12 or 13 episodes, it gets difficult to maintain a decent story, the standards of scriptwriting and production values. (The only show that, IMO has ever managed to sustain incredibly high quality over a 22 episode season was S2 of The West Wing.)

But splitting a series of DW in half, airing six months (ish) apart? No thanks.

Moffat says it's to serve the storytelling because he wants to put in a massive "game-changing" cliffhanger. Well, okay, I'm all for something like that. But having to wait MONTHS rather than DAYS for the resolution? Is he stupid, or what? I know people who got fed up with all the twisty-turny, timey-wimey plotty stuff in S5, who couldn't get invested in the new characters and stopped watching as a result. What makes him think that the audience will want to wait months for the resolution of this "game-changing" twist? ^**

I keep banging on about this, but the DW audience is not just made up of fans. There's a large contingent of casual viewers and that makes up the majority of the viewing numbers. I haven't seen a detailed analysis recently, but I remember reading something a while ago in which the numbers of casual viewers vs. fans was actually rather surprising. If anyone's got any info on that, I'd be interested to read it.

But my Spidey PR-bullshit sense is also tingling, because I can't help wondering if what Moffat's saying is really putting a brave face on the fact that he's been told that he has to do this for some reason. I can't see how splitting a series in two would mean they could make financial savings - if anything I'd think it would be more expensive if the filming and production has to be split into two. On the other hand though, if they film everything in the same way as now, splitting the season could save money in post-production as there will be more time to work on some things. Rush jobs always mean overtime.

Whatever the reason, I'm certainly one very uhnappy bunny about this news. Has anyone started a campaign to bombard the BBC with protests yet?

^**I do realise that many complete series/seasons of many shows end on cliffhangers - but I'm going to dig my heels in and whine "but that's different!". I also know that most episodes of Classic Who ended on cliffhangers - but we usually only had to wait a week for their resolution.

So yeah. I'm pissed off.



ETA: There is some spoilery speculation in the comments.

Comments

[teresadivicenzo.livejournal.com]

LJ ated my comment. Can you c&p it from your email and post it for me?!

[caz963.livejournal.com]

This was your worldly wisdom -

Bollocks is this Moffat's doing. I have no clue where this has come from or why it's happened - given the massive changes that are happening at the BBC, God only knows what's going on there atm - but no way will a writer of his intelligence and experience think this is a good idea.

I'm not bothered about bombarding the BBC with "zomg hate!" about this, purely because someone's made their decision and that's it. I'm WAY more interested in someone with some clout getting an answer about the budgets - because that's where I think the real answer to this lies.

All I was going to do was agree with you, really. And add that maybe it's his way of finding more time for Sherlock.

[teresadivicenzo.livejournal.com]

iawtc

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my first reaction was basically.... WOW, THAT IS WEIRD. I wonder if it was a BBC directive or what.

I know people who got fed up with all the twisty-turny, timey-wimey plotty stuff in S5, who couldn't get invested in the new characters and stopped watching as a result. What makes him think that the audience will want to wait months for the resolution of this "game-changing" twist?

That's a good point. I was one of those who spent most of S5 wishing for more characterization and less plot twists, so I could see myself wandering off from S6 if it just sort of.... stopped in the middle. D:

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I was one of those who spent most of S5 wishing for more characterization and less plot twists

Same here, for the most part. I was watching for the plot rather than because I cared much for any of the characters. Amy annoys the hell out of me and I'm still not sure I've got much of a handle on Eleven.

The Beeb often touts DW as a "flagship" show, and I'm sure it makes them a fair bit of money. So they get both money and prestige from it. If it wasn't for that, I'd be wondering if they were trying to kill it off again...

[goldy-dollar.livejournal.com]

Amy annoys the hell out of me and I'm still not sure I've got much of a handle on Eleven.

Same. I tried really really hard to like Amy and I *do* like Karen Gillan, but.... something went a bit wrong there in the writing.

The Beeb often touts DW as a "flagship" show, and I'm sure it makes them a fair bit of money. So they get both money and prestige from it. If it wasn't for that, I'd be wondering if they were trying to kill it off again...

It's a weird move. D: I hope it works for them.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

It won't work for anyone if the audience loses interest and they piss off the fans!

I still can't help thinking that there's more to this than meets the eye.

[bitwhizzle.livejournal.com]

THIS.

[killingfrost87.livejournal.com]

UGH. Do. Not. Want.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

IKR? I really do think there's something at work here other than Moff's desire to split the story.

The best thing I can come up with is, as topaz_eyes has pointed out below, that they want to move the show to the autumn permanently, which makes a lot of sense. If that's the case, I wish they'd just say so rather than feeding us bullshit,

[killingfrost87.livejournal.com]

Perhaps.


I'm slowly getting turned off Who....This season just didn't grab me. I liked Matt Smith, but the writing wasn't up to par for me, nor the stories. I just didn't even care if I watched or not. That was very new for me. ::sigh:: we'll see what happens this season.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I know a few people who just couldn't get into S5. I liked it and I liked Matt, but I don't feel the emotional connection with the characters that I did when Rusty was in charge.

Also - there's such a feeling among certain parts of fandom that Moffat is the best writer EVAR and that he can do no wrong that it annoys me. He's a great writer, yes, but all the "Oh, it's such a relief that we don't have to put up with all that RTD crap now" really pisses me off.

Oops - that turned into a bit of a rant.

[killingfrost87.livejournal.com]

That's exactly the issue I'm having. Both the emotional connection, and the "MOFF IS THE BEST THING AND PERSON EVAR. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DONT LOVE BLINK THE BEST!?"

Yeah.
Not Pleased.

[topaz-eyes.livejournal.com]

To be a devil's advocate here... this may be a step to move the show entirely to autumn for S7? I'd think there'd be more casual viewers around in the fall compared to spring. And the split did work for the 2009 Specials. Granted, there were only PotD and WoM, and they were stand-alone episodes, but still, the overnight/total numbers for them were good, 8.6/9.5 and 9.4/10.3 million respectively.

[Moffat] wants to put in a massive "game-changing" cliffhanger.

I have a pretty good idea of what the cliffhanger will be. Who wants to bet? *g*

I remember reading something a while ago in which the numbers of casual viewers vs. fans was actually rather surprising. If anyone's got any info on that

That would be interesting, but I don't know where those numbers would be. I did a comparison of general audience vs fannish audience appreciation, but that's not the same.

But my Spidey PR-bullshit sense is also tingling, because I can't help wondering if what Moffat's saying is really putting a brave face on the fact that he's been told that he has to do this for some reason.

My guess is possibly the ratings? The average for S5 was the same as previous seasons, but the trend was steadily downwards compared to V-shape curves in S2-S4. (The graphs are really interesting. Why yes, I've made them. *g*) Bumping the show to autumn would definitely boost ratings, , OTOH there was less than 1 million difference in viewers for the Specials.

Or, it could be this Doctor Who Live Tour I keep hearing so much about, maybe they want time for the actors to appear?

splitting the season could save money in post-production as there will be more time to work on some things.

I don't know about this. My impression from The Writer's Tale: The Final Chapter was that RTD was constantly looking for ways to cut back on post-production hours.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I read all your excellent analyses and very interesting they were, too!

I have my suspicions as to the nature of the cliffhanger ... but it seems rather soon for that, assuming we're thinking the same thing because I thought he was going to be around for the whole of S6. Although I've been thinking that perhaps it's time for a mid-series regeneration. (But I had mid-S7 in mind rather than mid-S6, because if the rumours about Alex Kingston are true, then she'll get to travel with two Doctors).

But I'm also with you on the idea that they might want to move the show to the autumn, permanently. But if that is the case, then my personal preference would be for a couple of specials in the spring and summer and a full series in the autumn. Yeah, I know. Being greedy.

The Beeb is always putting the screws on with regard to prodution costs. But I think S5 is the first time I've actually noticed that on screen.

ETA: The actors aren't involved in the tour, they'll be using filmed inserts AFAIK.

[hooloovoo_42]

The Beeb can put the series on whenever they like. Unlike USian shows, there's nothing to say when it has to be shown. The first Jon Pertwee episode was in September. The Beeb regularly shift series around within the year - WDYTYA is a prime example. So the whole thing smacks to me of utter bolleaux.

But I don't actually give a sh!t any more. So they can do WTF they like.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I don't mind them moving it. In fact, I've always thought DW would be more suited to the Autumn. But splitting a 13 episode series in two is ridiculous.

[hooloovoo_42]

Yes, splitting the season is stupid. In the "old days" when we had 4 or 6 part stories, there would be several of them in a season. But then, they were shorter, so now we have to make do with fewer longer eps.

It's about time they ditched Strictly on a Saturday night and put some decent telly back on. But I'm not holding my breath on that any time soon. If they want more money to spend of programmes, they should stop alienating the viewers they've got.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I don't mind paying my licence fee. But I'd be glad to pay it if the Beeb stopped trying to beat the commercial channels at their own game. An argument that comes up time and again whenever I hear a discussion about the LF is that the BBC, as a public broadcaster, should be making programmes that aren't made elsewhere, NOT aping ITV and Sky. Let ITV have bloody Lloyd Webber and Brucie - I don't want 'em on the Beeb!

Also - I never quite understand why the BBC has to look at ratings. They don't depend on advertising, which DOES depend on viewing figures. So why should it matter whether DW pulls in 6 million or 10 million viewers?

[cerisaye.livejournal.com]

I had a hard time sustaining interest through a straight run of S5 so the idea of a split series isn't appealing, and I would consider myself a serious fan, admittedly one who has issues with Moffat vs RTD. I'd be happier if they ran the complete series starting in the Autumn, like it used to, with a regular 7:00 p.m. start-time, though that'd put it up against the X-Factor. Are the two finales being given longer slots as with the Specials last year?

I do wonder, though, whether this has anything to do with freeing up more time for Moffat's Sherlock commitments?

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Nothing's been said yet about episode length; if it's related to budget cuts, I'd imagine episodes will stay roughly the same length.

But yes, I do wonder if it's got something to do with Sherlock

[hooloovoo_42]

They could put it on in a regular 6.15 timeslot and avoid X factor. But ITV would move XF. It would just be nice if it was on at the same time 2 weeks in a row!

[scarab-dynasty.livejournal.com]

Hiya. I got here from your doctorwho comment, hope you don't mind.

You know, they pulled a similar thing with a completely different fandom a few years back: Trekkies, specifically the ones who watched The Next Generation, will probably gladly recount to you the story of "The longest summer" where they had to wait an entire series to find out if the main protagonist had been assimlated by evil aliens and if his former crew had just blown him up... it didn't have the same effect for me popping in a DVD ten years later but it must've been HELL for the fans at the time... you can get there was a big ratings jump when autumn finally rolled around.

I guess he COULD be just doing the whole "putting on a brave face" thing (at the very least I get the series was adveristed to the bosses at the BEEB based on the whole "this will bring in more money and viewers" thing; though whether or not that reflects on his own reasoning for it is anyone's guess: what they think and what they tell the bosses who hand out the cash in order to get stuff done could be two different things) but at the moment I'm trying not to think that way, because... well because I don't want to spend six months to a year getting stressed out over this. I can't change it...I've loved what we;ve had the last five or six years so much, the thought of it going out that way leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, and seems unnessecary since that this point we have no REAL conclusive proof that this is the beginning of the end.

Though I agree with you that the Beeb is at it with their budgeting lately. The BBC seems to be a bit of a mess. I'm doing animation at uni and they actually opened up to a FIRST YEAR CLASS offering a contest for aniamtion series pitches: five years ago, the BBC would NEVER have done that. So that says something about how... well, desperate they are.

On the other hand... with that in mind, why would they then cut one of their BIGGEST merchandise earners and a show which, even in spite of a slight drop in viewers lately, is bringing in more attention than almost everything bar the televised football matches?

As for having to wait months to see a conclusion... irking, yeah. But then Doctor Who's endings are... not always happy, not always great but usually it leads to a victory for the good guys and I'm going to stick with that mind set for now. it's not like they're gonna destroy the universe XD so (tempts fate)... how bad can it really be?

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I don't mind at all - thanks for dropping by! Cliffhangers are part of TV, and they have of course been part of DW since it started in 1963. I don't mind them per se - it's just that splitting a 13 part series into two seems such a stupid thing to do. US seasons are generally longer and I know that some of them are splitting seasons quite successfully, but DW ain't broke, so why are they trying to fix it?

Viewing figures can be made to say many different things, and although there appeared to be a general downward trend in S5, they were bolstered by iPlayer and timeshifted figures. It also didn't help that it was never on at the same time from week to week.

I do think that Moffat is toeing the party line and putting a positive spin on it; after all, series 6 is in production and most of the scripts will have already been completed, which makes me think that the split wasn't part of the original plan. If it heralds a move to the autumn permanently, well, okay, I think that would be a better home for DW, but I think there are better ways to do it,

The thing that annoys me with the Beeb is this - I don't object to paying my licence fee; even though I moan about them sometimes, I do think that on the whole they do a good job. My problem is that, as a publicly funded broadcaster, they shouldn't be producing the sort of crap programmes that are already done ad infinitum by the commercial channels. The BBC in the UK is not funded by advertisers, so they shouldn't be competing for viewing figures with commercial channels. Most of the people who work for the Beeb earn less than they would in the commercial sector - but people want the prestige of wotking at the BBC. So what I'm saying basically,is that they should drop all the crappy reality shows and let ITV have free rein with them, and stick to making decent programmes that a large number of people want to see.

[oolookitty.livejournal.com]

I am already pretty checked out of this show, so I can only imagine that having to wait months for a cliffhanger to resolve itself will only resolve in my not caring enough to actually tune in. This is an incredibly stupid idea... and I have a feeling that a lot of people like me, who didn't love Series 5, will find this a good reason to drop out.