30 Days of Nu-Who - Day Nineteen

[caz963]

Until recently, DW isn’t a show that I’d ever have connected with shipping. I won’t deny that there was a definite frisson sometimes between Three and Jo and later between Three/Four and Sarah-Jane, but there was nothing overt and it wasn’t intended for there to be. The Doctor is/was supposed to be an asexual alien and not particularly interested in "that sort of thing" – he’s far more concerned about saving planets and civilizations and defeating the baddies.

And speaking as someone who grew up watching the show, that was as it should be – kids are generally far more interested in watching Daleks and Cybermen beat the crap out of each other than they are in watching people kissing (I know my kids are!) and a romantic angle wasn’t something I ever thought about at that age.

I remember the brou-ha-ha when Eight snogged his companion in the TV movie. Three times no less! So it clearly wasn’t an accident. (Unlike a lot of Ten’s snogs which were rarely “just” a kiss!)

TV today is rife with romance and UST and ‘ships and when Rusty brought DW back, he put that element into it, too. I’m mostly not bothered either way – I think it’s a bit sad if a bloke who’s been knocking around the universe for over nine-hundred years can’t ever fall in love, but then he’s had some pretty awesome friends along the way which I suppose makes up for a lot.

As far as the show itself goes then, I don’t particularly ship the Doctor with anyone. In fanfic terms however, I go for Ten and Donna – as friends or as more, if it's done well - because they tick all the right boxes as far as I'm concerned when it comes to "things that make a good 'ship."

They're a "non"-couple who express affection for each other through snark. They're two people who start out not liking each other very much but who end up becoming very fond of each other. (I'm paraphrasing David Tennant there, and I think he should know!)



They're exactly what the other needs and they understand each other better than anyone else - and despite the Doctor’s advanced age and knowledge, theirs was a relationship of equals in a way that Ten's relationships with his other two "principal" companions weren't, and that was also something rarely seen in all of DW, IMO. It was the healthiest relationship Ten ever had - with someone who didn't want anything from him other than to be allowed to tag along for the ride, who saw him for what he was and loved him anyway. And vice versa.

I also have a bit of a thing for friends who fall for each other - or who have the potential to do so.

They worked wonderfully as best mates in canon (and friendSHIP does contain the word ship after all!) and I'm delighted with that - but sometimes I like to think about where that might have gone had this been any other "regular" show.

One last thing. I’m reasonably convinced that DT was playing Ten as just the tiniest bit smitten (strong characters tend to like other strong characters who can give as good as they get from time to time!) – with Donna being completely oblivious. A little bit of payback for Martha, methinks.


The list

Day 1 - Favourite Incarnation of the Doctor
Day 2 - Favourite Companion
Day 3 - Favourite Villain/Monster/Alien/Baddie of the Week
Day 4 - Favourite Character
Day 5 - Favourite Guest Star
Day 6 - Least Favourite Character
Day 7 - Favourite Episode
Day 8 - Favourite Series
Day 9 - Least Favourite Episode
Day 10 - Favourite Scene/Moment
Day 11 - Scene/Moment that makes you cry
Day 12 - Scene/Moment that makes you giggle
Day 13 - Favourite Era visited by The Doctor & Co.
Day 14 - Fave Doctor Moment
Day 15 - Fave Rose Moment
Day 16 - Fave Martha Moment
Day 17 - Fave Donna Moment
Day 18 - Fave Amy Moment
Day 19 - Favorite Ship
Day 20 - Prettiest Scene
Day 21 - Favourite Location
Day 22 - Something Silly
Day 23 - Something Epic
Day 24 - Favourite Accessory of the Doctor's
Day 25 - Favourite Tardis Team
Day 26 - Scene/Moment that made you go 'awww'
Day 27 - Scene/Moment that made you go 'argh'
Day 28 - Favourite Series Arc
Day 29 - Favourite Music/Song
Day 30 - Why Do YOU Love Doctor Who

Comments

[canterlevi.livejournal.com]

The little fan-wanker in me thinks DT shipped Ten/Donna. Maybe just a little bit, but there you go. Hee!

Anyway, it looked that way from over on this side of the ocean. Apparently you saw the same thing from your angle, too. (makes me smile)

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Heh. Like I've said, doing all those picspams is what really helped to bring it home for me. All those little admiring looks can't have been accidental ;-)

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

All those little admiring looks can't have been accidental ;-)

It's funny, because the way that DT/Ten often looked at Donna (and Martha, really) always seemed rather non-platonic to me, whereas I didn't see that with Rose, where it was 'supposed' to be romantic. I always wondered if that was accidental/subconscious or a conscious acting decision on his part.

Oh, Tennant. He just can't hide how awesome he thinks Catherine is. ;)

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I'm glad it's not just me who sees it - I was saying to a friend a while back that Ten/David looks at Donna (and as you say, Martha occasionally) in a far more "sexually charged" way than he ever did with Rose. I admit that my own prejudices may well be colouring my view, but like I said, trawling through caps really did bring it home to me that I had actually seen those expressions rather than them just being my imagination! I always got the impression that Ten and Rose were like a "teen" romance - all giggly and gooey-eyed, where as Ten and Donna shared a more "grown up" love.

I mean, you can't tell me that Ten isn't thinking naughty thoughts here!



*g*

I wonder if DT was aware that Rusty's original intention - before CT signed on - was to make the S4 companion someone that Ten fell hard for (Wham! Both hearts.) and decided to inject a little of that.

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

*happy sigh at pic*

Oh god, definitely with the naughty thoughts. I love when he looks at her like that (it's part of why I love this icon, it makes me go 'kiss her, already!').

Also, as you said, I've too wondered if DT knew the whole S4-Penny-plot going in and if that colored the way he played the character (then again, when Catherine is with him and they're out of character, they are just as flirty, so you never know, it could just be a DT crush shining through! LOL).

[annissamazing]

I love Ten and Donna sooo much! They're always a joy to watch together, in-character and out.

I don't really see anything remotely romantic between them, but that may be because I genuinely love a true, pure friendship. Nothing complicated. Nothing angsty. No UST. Just two people who truly like being around each other.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I find it fascinating that we can all watch the same show and see so many different things. It's just that from trawling through screencaps when I was doing my mammoth S2-S4 rewatch picspams, I started to notice that there are quite a few moments where Ten has a definite... 'gleam' in his eye when he's looking at Donna. And given that DT is such an amazing actor, I can't believe they're unintentional.

But then that may just as easily be my own prejudices showing.

I do love them as friends, though - I just like the odd "what if" now and then.

[luinel-anduril.livejournal.com]

Oo, i never thought of that, but like it: Ten is oblivious to Martha, Donna is oblivious to Ten.

Modern science fiction has developed something of a system for dealing with fangirls, and i can't imagine nuWho working without it. I think shipping is expected for any show post Moonlighting.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

There's a really good fic from Ten's PoV where he realises he's getting a dose of his own medicine... if I can find it again, I'll edit this comment and link to it.

Your point about the obligatory shippiness is a good one - and I don't think it's just for Sci-Fi.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

kids are generally far more interested in watching Daleks and Cybermen beat the crap out of each other than they are in watching people kissing (I know my kids are!) and a romantic angle wasn’t something I ever thought about at that age

Now that the shipping goggles are on I get weirded out when Seven'n'Ace are being shippy and I'm like "WTF NO THEY ARE BFFS SHE IS 17 OR SOMETHING OH GOD STOP CLEANING HER FACE WITH SPIT YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE OTP LIKE THAT YOU'RE BRAINTWINS AND SOUL-MATCHES!"


They're a "non"-couple who express affection for each other through snark. They're two people who start out not liking each other very much but who end up becoming very fond of each other.

I think they are so great for shipping because Actual Effort seems to have gone into making them obviously connect and get on as people. Most of the "you are meant to ship them!" couples in Nu Who really don't get that and so it's just "What would they see in each other? Do they ever actually have conversations? I don't get this at all."


It was the healthiest relationship Ten ever had

Trufax!


One last thing. I’m reasonably convinced that DT was playing Ten as just the tiniest bit smitten (strong characters tend to like other strong characters who can give as good as they get from time to time!) – with Donna being completely oblivious.

Someone linked me to that cafe scene from End of Time and I was like "HOLY SHIT he's in love with her for reals OMGWTF."

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Effort seems to have gone into making them obviously connect and get on as people. Most of the "you are meant to ship them!" couples in Nu Who really don't get that

Absolutely. Although some of that may be due to the fact that DT and CT got on like a house on fire from the get go and because - as is obvious from other stuff they've done together outside of DW - they're very comfortable around each other and are good mates IRL.

I don't normally watch shows just because there's a "ship" I'm invested in. If one happens along, then fine, if not, that's fine, too. But I don't like having one shoved down my throat (you know what I'm sayin'!), especially in a show like this where it can never end well!

The way Ten looks at Donna in that scene slays me.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

especially in a show like this where it can never end well!

Mostly the ships I ship in DW involve some degree of It Can Never End Well as part of the appeal. When people marry off the Doctor and settle him down it is SO VERY WRONG I DON'T EVEN HAVE THE WORDS.

Tennant and Tate have the chemistry in bucketloads.

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

I love Ten and Donna together so much. Not only did they benefit from Tennant and Tate's amazing chemistry together, but I think, from a story standpoint, I think they really had such a wonderful relationship. I think Donna is exactly what the Doctor needed when she came back into his life. I hate how things went down in the end, but I did love their journey together.

As for shipping, much like you, my fanon is that Ten definitely has/d a thing for Donna. I usually think of it as mostly unrequited on Ten's part, though I have admittedly written fanfic where Donna tries things with him just out of curiosity or because she ultimately trusts and cares about him so much. I think they are such a wonderful couple-that-never-was*.

I miss them together, muchly.



* I'm not going to lie, with all the 'we're not together' stuff throughout S4, I had a small hope back then that they might end up in a romantic scenario together at the end of the season, but it was not to be. Oh well. Still, having said that, in most cases I generally prefer my romance-in-Who to be off-screen fanon rather than too big a part of the story arcs.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

in most cases I generally prefer my romance-in-Who to be off-screen fanon rather than too big a part of the story arcs.

Yeah, I think I'm with you there.

I didn't expect there to be a Ten/Donna romance although I did love the running gag.

The fact that it's definitely possible to get the idea that Ten was smitten from what was on the screen is what makes it reasonably simple to write him in love; my stumbling block is always Donna and how to get her to the point where she'd admit to thinking about him "like that". Which is why I vowed I'd never write a "first time" fic for them.

My last fic shows that I should never say things like that! :-)

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

The fact that it's definitely possible to get the idea that Ten was smitten from what was on the screen is what makes it reasonably simple to write him in love; my stumbling block is always Donna and how to get her to the point where she'd admit to thinking about him "like that". Which is why I vowed I'd never write a "first time" fic for them.

Oh god, I know! That's really why I've very rarely written Ten/Donna because Donna gets a bit stubborn with my muse when I try to. ;) I was able to sort of frame it as a comedy once in Quid Pro Quo, where Donna was both curious and a bit under-sexed at the time and then Ten was able to get things to happen between them using that advantage, but usually...yeah.

I think that's why I've usually stuck to writing kinkmeme flashfic about them, because I don't have to worry about setting up things too much. It's sad too, because though Martha/Ten is probably my favorite pairing, I think that Donna/Ten probably had the most UST and I really wanted them to get together (off-screen or subtly, of course).

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Heh - I remember that. One of my favourite lines was the one about Ten being good at taking Donna's mind off sex!

I'm crap at PWPs. I can write decent smut, but I can't write it without delving into motivations and stuff like that. Which makes Ten/Donna smut pretty difficult to get right when she made it so clear that she didn't want any "of that nonsense". Was she blind?! *g*

[ebony-steinbach.livejournal.com]

I've been out of the Who fandom for about 8 months now (hence why I'm posting so late, and also my sudden urge to catch up on some DoctorDonna fics), so I don't have much to add to this except I agree with everything that's been said. The Doctor and Donna are my OTP because they get along so well and are the best thing to have happened to each other. I don't care if they fall in love or not (I began as firmly a platonic shipper), as long as they're together at the end of the day. A lot of it also comes down to DT and CT's chemistry. They could have an episode where the Doctor and Donna are just bumming around on the Tardis and watching romcoms and making tea and popcorn, and it'd still be awesome. Those two genuinely enjoyed each other's company and asked for nothing more than the other could give while still making the other better.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

I began as firmly a platonic shipper

As did I. It was only later, on rewatches and doing all those episode picspams that I started to notice thosse "looks" that Ten used to give Donna - ones that clearly said he might've liked to have been more than mates.

But I love the relationship they did have, too - they loved each other, for sure, and that's canon, however you choose to interpret it.

I think I've posted a few fics in the time you've been AWOL ;-) Check out my fic journal (http://caz-fic.livejournal.com) when you've got time.

[tweedymcgee.livejournal.com]

I ship Ten/Donna like it's FedEx.

Partly because it's dooooooomed. Partly because they're hilarious. Mostly because she gives him so much hell.

Come to think of it, that's probably what I like about Doctor/Master, too. Hmm.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Hehe!

I'm a bit... odd when it comes to shipping, and it's not something I can really explain, other than to say that I find it difficult to ship "non-canonical" couples. In the last show I adored, the couple I shipped were very much like Ten and Donna (Josh and Donna in The West Wing) in that they were forever snarking each other and doing "couple-y" things and they "got" each other like nobody else. They did eventually end up together.

It took a LOT for me to get over my initial resitance to shipping Ten and Donna "romantically" - although I don't actually see them as at all romantic in the conventional sense. I said in a comment over at my fic journal (http://caz-fic.livejournal.com/20991.html?thread=146175#t146175") that I see them as a couple who kinda skipped the whole "infatuation" stage of being "in" love, and jumped straight to simply loving each other.

I still find it difficult (in fic) to get past the hurdle that Donna doesn't seem to have been at all interested in the show. Ten definitely was - but she was clueless.

Anyway - sorry that turned into an essay!

[tweedymcgee.livejournal.com]

You've no idea the hoops I just jumped through to get the two of them in the sack, ficwise. *grin*

I met somebody who gave me a lot of Donna Noble guff, once. Got a ring to show for it.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

After I'd written a fic where they started off in bed and had clearly been "at it" for a while, I swore I was NEVER, EVER going to write a "first time" fic for them. No. Never.
Because I just couldn't see Donna going there.

But of course, I did it. That'll teach me ;-)

It always makes me cringe when someone writes her ogling Ten or thinking how sexy he is.

Of COURSE he is! We know he is! But she just didn't seem to notice.

(I've not seen your fic, I don't think?)

I regularly give someone Donna Noble style guff and have been doing so for the past twenty years *g*

[tweedymcgee.livejournal.com]

It's on my journal. About half of it is F-locked -- I've been writing it in a sort of free-for-all open beta, because I'm very new to LJ and didn't know anyone to ask to beta-read it. I haven't posted it to comms yet.

First effort at fic, clocking in at 25,000 words and counting.

Thanks a lot, O reluctant Donna Noble. *grin*

[tweedymcgee.livejournal.com]

P.S. Topaz_eyes has been doing a smashup job as a thoughtful beta-reader. I'm amazed how friendly everyone's been here.

[tweedymcgee.livejournal.com]

P.S. I hope I didn't thoroughly get off on the wrong foot with you on Someone Else's Journal the other day, 'cause I like the cut of your jib. Just sayin'.

[caz963.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, you absolutely didn't - and I'm pleased we've "met"!