DW 5x07 - Amy's Choice
May. 16th, 2010 07:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
caz963I didn’t get to watch yesterday because I was out, so I’ve done my best to avoid reading too much about the episode.
I think that was the best episode of the new series so far – and Simon Nye needs to write more Doctor Who.
It’s no secret that while I can enjoy the silly and the daft and the monster/alien-of-the-week stuff in DW, the thing that really hooks me is the more character driven element. That was one of the things that Rusty brought to the show and that he did very, very well – the bits “in between”, if you will. Ten talking to Donna on the rooftop in The Runaway Bride, telling Martha about Gallifrey in Gridlock,telling Adelaide about her granddaughter in Waters of Mars - to name but a few.
And I’ve been missing it, big-time. I’m watching and enjoying S5, but it’s not been hitting the spot for me in the way it used to. So – thank you Simon Nye for bringing back my squee, even if it’s only for one episode.
What’s the betting the Daily Fail will be full of complaints from Help the Aged next week? *g*
I liked the way the episode was constructed and paced, with the sharp cuts between the two worlds, and as you’d expect from someone primarily known as a writer of comedy, there were some fabulous lines and comedic moments. “You’ve swallowed a planet”; the thing about the Doctor’s outfit being designed by a first-year fashion student (although to be honest, I can’t see a first-year fashion student being caught dead designing something incorporating a tweed jacket and bow tie!), the moment on the bench, that image of the Doctor cupping his hands underneath Amy as she pretends to go into labour; Amy's getting pregnant so she didn't have to watch the local Amateur Operatic Society doing Oklahoma!...
And whatever the reason, Moff and team have clearly adopted the view that Ten deflowered the Virgin Queen – we’ve had two references to it this season! Also – mention of his penchant for redheads (there’s only been one in nu-Who though) and the fact that Elizabeth the First er… wasn’t. Wasn’t his first what? Queen? Elizabeth? Or redhead? Oh, the possiblilities for fanwank are endless. I shall choose the latter because clearly Ten and Donna were going at like bunnies and the only reason he married Liz I was because she reminded him of Donna. *wink!*
And then there were the darker moments. About what happens when the Doctor leaves and/or discards his companions, his selfishness in his need for them. YES! And at the end, the Doctor himself acknowledges that after 907 years, he’s bound to have a lot of inner demons for someone like the ‘Dream Lord’ to prey on. I loved the “there’s only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do” line – which was when I got a clue. Because yes, the Doctor is that person – there were times when the depth of self-loathing that Nine and Ten carried seemed like it would burn them up. Eleven is suppressing all that so far – and I still can’t work out if it’s deliberate or simply inexperience and/or poor direction, because even here, when you could see that the barbs the Dream Lord was throwing at the Doctor were affecting him, it didn’t seem like they affected him enough.
I also liked the scene between the Dream Lord and Amy - it points up one of the reasons I've found it so hard to like her - which is her very propietary attitude towards the Doctor. She thinks he's the girl to whom he tells everything. Why the hell does she think that? She knows he's "very, very old" and I presume realises she's not the only person he's travelled with - so how can she possibly think he's told her everything? Why does she think she's so special? And more to the point - WE HAVEN'T BEEN GIVEN ANY REASON TO THINK HE THINKS SHE WOULD 'DESERVE' THAT EITHER! I really hope that this is all deliberate and there will be some big reveal later, but this arrogance is one of the things I really dislike about Amy.
Thing is – does anyone else feel like that whole alien-pollen thing wasn’t the truth? It felt a bit too - I dunno - convenient? to me. I can’t help thinking of the Doctor clapping his hands and rubbing them together with glee when he sees that Amy has indeed made her choice. He didn’t say “sorted!” but it was hanging in the air. And what did he say at the end of Flesh and Stone? That he needed to get her sorted out. So for some reason, it’s important that Amy chooses Rory – OR, could it be not so much that she chooses Rory but that she chooses someone who isn’t the Doctor? And if that’s the case, while on one level, I can understand him wanting that for her because he’s lost so many who’ve loved him, but I imagine it’s important in terms of the bigger picture, too. So were the dream worlds somehow engineered by the Doctor to further his matchmaking designs? We know he can be a manipulative bastard - and he's admitted it - although I don't think we saw so much of that side of him during Rusty's tenure.
I'm still really liking Rory and hope he'll stay on board the TARDIS for the foreseeable future. He makes Amy bearable for me, but he's also a good character in his own right. He's not 'Rory the Idiot' - last week, we saw that he was able to sum up the Doctor and the effect he has on people with rather a lot of insight, and that he wasn't going to be easily overawed, despite the fact that he's up against the most amazing man in the universe(!) He's an ordinary guy showing that it's okay to be ordinary - and that an ordinary guy can be extraordinary nonetheless. He appears to be in the two-parter coming up; is he around for the rest of the series?
And we've passed the halfway point of S5.
I think that was the best episode of the new series so far – and Simon Nye needs to write more Doctor Who.
It’s no secret that while I can enjoy the silly and the daft and the monster/alien-of-the-week stuff in DW, the thing that really hooks me is the more character driven element. That was one of the things that Rusty brought to the show and that he did very, very well – the bits “in between”, if you will. Ten talking to Donna on the rooftop in The Runaway Bride, telling Martha about Gallifrey in Gridlock,telling Adelaide about her granddaughter in Waters of Mars - to name but a few.
And I’ve been missing it, big-time. I’m watching and enjoying S5, but it’s not been hitting the spot for me in the way it used to. So – thank you Simon Nye for bringing back my squee, even if it’s only for one episode.
What’s the betting the Daily Fail will be full of complaints from Help the Aged next week? *g*
I liked the way the episode was constructed and paced, with the sharp cuts between the two worlds, and as you’d expect from someone primarily known as a writer of comedy, there were some fabulous lines and comedic moments. “You’ve swallowed a planet”; the thing about the Doctor’s outfit being designed by a first-year fashion student (although to be honest, I can’t see a first-year fashion student being caught dead designing something incorporating a tweed jacket and bow tie!), the moment on the bench, that image of the Doctor cupping his hands underneath Amy as she pretends to go into labour; Amy's getting pregnant so she didn't have to watch the local Amateur Operatic Society doing Oklahoma!...
And whatever the reason, Moff and team have clearly adopted the view that Ten deflowered the Virgin Queen – we’ve had two references to it this season! Also – mention of his penchant for redheads (there’s only been one in nu-Who though) and the fact that Elizabeth the First er… wasn’t. Wasn’t his first what? Queen? Elizabeth? Or redhead? Oh, the possiblilities for fanwank are endless. I shall choose the latter because clearly Ten and Donna were going at like bunnies and the only reason he married Liz I was because she reminded him of Donna. *wink!*
And then there were the darker moments. About what happens when the Doctor leaves and/or discards his companions, his selfishness in his need for them. YES! And at the end, the Doctor himself acknowledges that after 907 years, he’s bound to have a lot of inner demons for someone like the ‘Dream Lord’ to prey on. I loved the “there’s only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do” line – which was when I got a clue. Because yes, the Doctor is that person – there were times when the depth of self-loathing that Nine and Ten carried seemed like it would burn them up. Eleven is suppressing all that so far – and I still can’t work out if it’s deliberate or simply inexperience and/or poor direction, because even here, when you could see that the barbs the Dream Lord was throwing at the Doctor were affecting him, it didn’t seem like they affected him enough.
I also liked the scene between the Dream Lord and Amy - it points up one of the reasons I've found it so hard to like her - which is her very propietary attitude towards the Doctor. She thinks he's the girl to whom he tells everything. Why the hell does she think that? She knows he's "very, very old" and I presume realises she's not the only person he's travelled with - so how can she possibly think he's told her everything? Why does she think she's so special? And more to the point - WE HAVEN'T BEEN GIVEN ANY REASON TO THINK HE THINKS SHE WOULD 'DESERVE' THAT EITHER! I really hope that this is all deliberate and there will be some big reveal later, but this arrogance is one of the things I really dislike about Amy.
Thing is – does anyone else feel like that whole alien-pollen thing wasn’t the truth? It felt a bit too - I dunno - convenient? to me. I can’t help thinking of the Doctor clapping his hands and rubbing them together with glee when he sees that Amy has indeed made her choice. He didn’t say “sorted!” but it was hanging in the air. And what did he say at the end of Flesh and Stone? That he needed to get her sorted out. So for some reason, it’s important that Amy chooses Rory – OR, could it be not so much that she chooses Rory but that she chooses someone who isn’t the Doctor? And if that’s the case, while on one level, I can understand him wanting that for her because he’s lost so many who’ve loved him, but I imagine it’s important in terms of the bigger picture, too. So were the dream worlds somehow engineered by the Doctor to further his matchmaking designs? We know he can be a manipulative bastard - and he's admitted it - although I don't think we saw so much of that side of him during Rusty's tenure.
I'm still really liking Rory and hope he'll stay on board the TARDIS for the foreseeable future. He makes Amy bearable for me, but he's also a good character in his own right. He's not 'Rory the Idiot' - last week, we saw that he was able to sum up the Doctor and the effect he has on people with rather a lot of insight, and that he wasn't going to be easily overawed, despite the fact that he's up against the most amazing man in the universe(!) He's an ordinary guy showing that it's okay to be ordinary - and that an ordinary guy can be extraordinary nonetheless. He appears to be in the two-parter coming up; is he around for the rest of the series?
And we've passed the halfway point of S5.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 06:48 pm (UTC)There were bits of it I found OK, like the Dream Lord being a manifestation of the Doctor's dark side. But I find Rory duller than a dull thing on a dull day. His ponytail was possibly the best thing about him.
I'm glad Amy made her choice, as it gets us away from yet another lovesick companion, but I'm still not finding either Amy or the Doctor anything other than placeholders. I'm not campaigning for Ten back, I'd just like the Doctor back, please.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 07:00 pm (UTC)I hear you on the placeholder thing. I think there's too much we still don't know about the Doctor or Amy (I just added a paragraph about something I forgot earlier) - and even my Mum - completely unprompted - said that she thought that if they're not careful, people will get fed up and stop watching.
I know there are a lot of people out there who hated Ten and the fact that he wore his heart(s) on his sleeve so much, and like Eleven because he's the opposite. But is that because he's Eleven, or because he's NOT Ten? And is the gap that people like us are feeling because we liked the more sweeping emotional stuff and are finding Eleven wanting for the same reason - he's not Ten?
I'm trying to be as fair as I can, given my abiding love for Ten - but Nine was fucked-up and emotional too, and I don't see people slagging him off.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 07:19 pm (UTC)I kept thinking yesterday that if this were Jon Pertwee, we'd be getting more serious consideration and less mindless running about. When we do see him being serious, there's not enough of it.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 07:40 pm (UTC)when you could see that the barbs the Dream Lord was throwing at the Doctor were affecting him, it didn’t seem like they affected him enough
But I liked that. I like to think he's recovering from the Time War, and recovering the person he was before then. Not that he'll ever become no-longer-affected-at-all, but it's natural that the barbs should stop sinking in so deeply.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 07:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 07:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:03 pm (UTC)someone else, somewhere, pointed out: the episodes need to be able to stand alone
Er... well I've said it, but I'm sure others have, too *g*
And that given that the show still relies heavily on 'casual' viewers, it's a risk to keep so much back about the story and especially the characters.
mean, not even Donna, who he asserted was his best friend, not even she would presume to know everything about him!
Exactly, which is why that scene actually made me cringe. Donna knew Ten better than anyone, even though she was a mass of insecurities and never appreciated how brilliant she was - despite his telling her that regularly.
And come to think of it, perhaps we were meant to make that connection, because although Donna wasn't mentioned by name, she was 'present' in the comment about redheads.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:12 pm (UTC)I love Donna, I miss Donna so much, she was by far my favorite companion! And I wonder, considering how the Doctor's alter-ego was attacking Amy, I wonder if deep down inside he isn't a bit annoyed by all her arrogance? He's 907. She's known him for maybe a few weeks at most. Where does she get all this nonsense?
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:38 pm (UTC)Actually, I think it's even been less than that. Normally by this time in the season, there's been some stuff that allows for time gaps, but everything this year seems to have happened one after another.
Beast Below was the first adventure, with Amy still in her nightie. Then Churchill called them, segueing them straight into VotD. It seems like ToA/FaS happened straight after that since Amy mentions "first a spaceship, then Churchill's bunker, I want a planet next." And then they go straight to her room after the adventure, the Doctor says he need's to sort her out, presumably goes to pick up Rory and then they go straight to Venice.
So if it has been a few weeks, Rory's been with them for the majority of that time.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:41 pm (UTC)Really, IMO it's all in her head.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:51 pm (UTC)Though, I suppose it could stem from the fact that she's been thinking about him her whole life. She made Rory dress up as the Doctor. She probably invented stories about him, gave him a history, and started mixing her dreams with reality.
And they sort of touched on that with this episode and the Dreamlord going, "umm... no." But it would be nice to see a bit more smackdown, especially if Amy will continue to assume things about him.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 10:07 pm (UTC)A lot of people have been justifying Amy's purported knowledge of the Doctor that way - but wtf? He's been in her head for that time, she's imagined him - and that isn't the same as knowing him!
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 11:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 07:44 am (UTC)It still doesn't explain why she thinks he tells her everything though.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 10:14 am (UTC)And I'm trying to remember - has the Doctor mentioned other companions before? I mean, other than when saying he can't be alone for too long because he starts talking to himself? I can visualise him saying something like 'I have people who travel with me' but I'm not sure if he actually did or I invented it. (Ha, I'm getting as bad as Amy!)
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 12:37 pm (UTC)I'd agree with that assessment. Which also makes the line about four psychiatrists even more relevant, because really, how unbalanced must a person be to think they know someone because they've been dreaming about them for years??
As far as I remember, Eleven hasn't mentioned any other companion by name, although I'm sure we were all meant to think of Donna with the line about redheads.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 09:25 pm (UTC)We know of at least one missing scene between the Doctor and Amelia during which he told her at least one very important thing. And we have some hints that there have been other meetings--for all we know, many of them over 14 years of Amy's life.
Since Amy's smugness and arrogance are beginning to really gall me, this is about the only explanation that has any appeal for me. Because Amy as we are seeing her now is claiming a status with the Doctor that appears to be based on nothing but an inflated sense of her own attractiveness.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 10:14 pm (UTC)Yes, and I'm hoping that that is going to explain a LOT! I'm also starting to wonder if there have been other meetings which have somehow been erased from one or both of their memories.
Since Amy's smugness and arrogance are beginning to really gall me, this is about the only explanation that has any appeal for me. Because Amy as we are seeing her now is claiming a status with the Doctor that appears to be based on nothing but an inflated sense of her own attractiveness.
I rarely do this - but WORD!
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 10:03 pm (UTC)Donna, I can see being able to worm stuff out of Ten. But Eleven is obviously much more closed-off and reticent - and perhaps even cautious about letting people get as close to him as he did when he was Ten. Amy's full of her own self-importance, I think.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:05 pm (UTC)I'm liking Rory as a companion. Reminds me a bit of Harry.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 08:53 pm (UTC)Completely agree with you there. This was really great storytelling. Rory makes Amy tolerable for me too, and I hope he sticks around.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 10:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 09:29 pm (UTC)It only makes sense if, in some meeting we have not been shown, the Doctor told Amy "I am telling you everything."
There seems to be an unfinished conversation between the Doctor and Amy about trust: Trust me most when I am lying to you, he said to her at one point (last week, I think?). So presumably if he *did* tell her "everything," he was lying. But she seems to be basing her claim on more than the few adventures we've seen them do together.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 10:12 pm (UTC)Yes - but as someone upthread has pointed out, everything we're seeing doesn't seem to have any gaps to allow for 'off-screen adventures' in the way that other series did.
If there is timey-wimey going on off screen - and of course there could be, I think it's a huge risk. This whole idea of not telling the audience everything is more often used in experimental film-making (!) - and while I certainly don't mind having to think about my TV, that approach doesn't suit everyone.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 01:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 07:54 am (UTC)There is a precedent for the redhead thing, of sorts - the Doctor himself has been disappointed about not being ginger - twice!
Like you, I thought the initial reference to Liz I was just Ten being, well, Ten and wittering on, (plus RTD being mischievous and giving us a reason for her being so pissed off with him at the end ot TSC) but even at the time, some people took it really seriously. It appears that Moff was one of them!
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 10:21 am (UTC)I mean, of all the things to bring over from the RTD era, why a one-off reference to Elizabeth I? And then to mention it twice when there's no real reason in terms of plot...I can't help but have a tiny suspicion that it might be relevant. Which is probably one theory too far in terms of this series, but my first reaction after she was mentioned was to go 'What?! Is this going to be relevant to the plot arc now?'
I don't know. Maybe I'm so turned off by the idea of it I just really want it to be anything but the literal truth. In all likelihood it's probably a joke they can't resist repeating, like the 'I'm still not ginger!' line.
(Love your icon by the way - we all need more Blackadder in our lives)
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 12:44 pm (UTC)Both times, the Doctor has been called a "naughty boy" or something similar for shagging the Virgin Queen! This time, it was mentioned by the Dream Lord, who turns out to have been the Doctor himself - or so we were told. So it's his own subconscious... maybe he feels guilty!
OR. The episode was about Amy making a choice between two men to whom she's sexually attracted. But one of them (the Doctor) has shown he's not interested in her that way. So... was the Liz I comment - "okay, so he won't shag you, but he isn't averse to a bit of nookie with other women/redheads" - in a rub-her-nose-in-it sort of way? Was it the Doctor subconsciously (or otherwise) warning her off?
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 01:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 07:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 02:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 08:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-18 07:05 am (UTC)secondly yeah not seein any oncoming storm yet, and honestly i saw more of the storm in eps like the end of series 1, human nature/family of blood, waters of mars and the satan pit. I want to see more of that
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 06:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 08:04 am (UTC)