caz963: (Ten votd fire)
[personal profile] caz963
You can tell I’ve either got time on my hands or that I’m procrastinating when I come up with something like this.

Anyway.

A couple of days ago [livejournal.com profile] topaz_eyes posted an excellent bit of meta about the Rueful Fate of Donna Noble in Journey’s End - if you’ve not read it, I highly recommend it – as part of an Unpopular Fandom Opinions meme. I’m not doing the meme, but it started me thinking, and I’ve realized that I have some opinions when it comes to DW that appear not to be shared by most of fandom.

For example, I don’t hate what is colloquially known as Tinkerbell!Doctor in Last of the Time Lords. It was cheesy, yes, but I didn’t (and still don’t) care – I liked it. Girl in the Fireplace and Blink aren’t among my favourite episodes of nu-Who EVAH! I don’t hate River Song (even though she was bloody annoying to start with!) and I don’t like Rose very much. That last one will come as a huge shock, I know.

But the Unpopular Fandom Opinion I’m going to voice isn’t to do with any of those. (And it's also nowhere near as good or as insightful as the bit of meta I've linked to above).

It’s this. I LIKE VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED



Yes. You read that right. I’ve never made a secret of that fact, but it was on telly today and once my brain had regained normal function (i.e, after it had finished!) I started thinking that it was time to show the episode some love. After all, it’s still the Christmas episode with the highest viewing figures, so it must’ve done something right (as well as employ an antipodean midget!)

I mean – what’s not to love? To get the bleedin’ obvious out of the way – and in case you hadn’t noticed, David Tennant spends 99% of the episode running around in a nicely fitting tux and looking quite possibly the most gorgeous he’s ever looked on DW.



Further evidence of that – should you require more than my word for it, is in the picspam I did a while back.

But that’s not going to form the basis of my argument. Such as it is.

Voyage of the Damned is The Posiedon Adventure in space. For anyone unfamiliar with that movie -

The plot centers on the fictional ocean liner SS Poseidon, an aged luxury liner from the golden age of travel, on its final voyage from New York City to Athens before being sent to the scrapyard. On New Year's Day, it is overturned by a tsunami caused by an underwater earthquake. Passengers and crew are trapped inside and a rebellious preacher attempts to lead a small group of survivors to safety.
from Wikipedia


Of course, the survivors are a bunch of “misfits” – that’s like an unwritten rule of disaster movies, isn’t it? And of course, they don’t all survive. In fact, the overall body-count is pretty high in this one. All the passengers and crew are killed apart from the Doctor, Mr Copper, Ritson and Allons-y-Alonzo. So it could be seen as being a bit depressing for something you’d watch with the family on Christmas Day. But somehow, it doesn’t feel like that. Perhaps it’s because we’re so familiar with the genre – after all, people my age are used to looking forward to watching the “Big Christmas Day Movie” in the days before we had DVDs and Videos and Sky Plus and movies on demand – and it was usually a Bond film, or something along the lines of The Toweing Inferno! – so the way I see it, Rusty was simply carrying on a childhood tradition! (I’m the same age as he is, so it makes perfect sense to me.)

But watching VotD again today, I was really at a loss to see why it’s attracted so much scorn and derision. Are there cheesy moments? Absolutely. But there are plenty of other GOOD things to balance those out and the hommage to various movie genres as well as to the original film and disaster movies in general are very well done; and the special effects and set design are fabulous.

The good –

  • Geoffrey Palmer. Yes, ol’ hand-bag cheeks himself was terrific as the captain. His speech as he told Frame what he was doing and why was pitch perfect and what was even better was that we were given a context for his actions. I’m not saying that makes what he did right, but as in all of Rusty’s Who, there’s a difficult and irreconcilable conflict in his motives and we got to see it.

  • Mr Copper and his misunderstanding and misinformation about Earth culture and traditions. His speeches about the war with Turkey, and then later about the barbarism of Christmas are utterly inspired.

    I am Mr Copper, the ship's historian, and I will be taking you to Old London Town in the country of Yookay. Ruled over by Good King Wenceslas. Now, Human Beings worship the great God, Santa. A creature with fearsome claws. And his wife, Mary. Every Christmas Eve, the people of Yookay go to war, with the country of Turkey.
    They then eat the Turkey-people, for Christmas dinner. Like savages.


  • WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILF!!!!!!!!!!!

  • It’s FUNNY!

  • Christmas is a time of peace and thanksgiving and, oh what am I on about? My Christmases are always like this!

    See, I like little in-show-self-referency things like that.

  • And yes, the thing with Her Maj in curlers and fluffy slippers is ridiculous – but it makes me laugh my head off.

  • THIS:

    But if you could choose, Doctor. If you could decide who lives and who dies. That would make you a monster.

  • The bunch of misfit survivors. Like I said, it’s an unwritten rule for this sort of plot – but I have to admire – again – the swift brush-strokes that are used to tell us who these people are. Of course, they’re not fully fleshed out characters – they couldn’t be, given that there’s only an hour to tell this story, but it’s enough to make us feel sorry when Foon and her old man pop their clogs, cheer when Mr Copper realises he’s a millionaire and to want to smack Ritson for being such a selfish git.

  • David Tennant. Yeah, yeah, I know - but before you roll your eyes and remind me of how shallow I am, I'm not just talking about the pretty. I'm talking about the fact that he carries the whole thing with absolute confidence and conviction. He never gives less than 110% (and when you consider the circumstances under which he was working at the time of filming, it's even more incredible) he makes me want to cheer at the cheesy lines (see below), makes me laugh with one-liners about talking conkers and his little-boy grin and makes me sniffle when the Doctor loses yet another person who meant something to him. Ten's a big, damn bally hero in this one, and I love it.


Okay, the not so great…

  • The cheese.

    I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time Lord. I'm from the planet Gallifrey in the constellation of Kasterborous. I'm nine hundred and three years old, and I'm the man who's going to save your lives and all six billion people on the planet below. Got a problem with that?

    Yes – its gorgonzola city. But it’s another of those times when I have to express my unbridled admiration for the fact that David managed to deliver some truly dreadful line with such complete and utter conviction that he made me believe them. almost

  • The Slow-Mo walk… see “the cheese” – above.

    But - is that really any more cheesy than a ride around the skies in a one space-shark open sleigh?!

  • The Kylie

    Of course she was cast to boost the ratings – she’s a huge star. A pretty, blonde, singer/actress whose character was really not much more than a plot device and who… hang on a minute. Why does that sound familiar?

    It amuses me no end that she had to stand on a box to snog Ten though, and that David has to almost bend in half to look her in the eye!

  • The Ascension

    Um. Yeah. I can’t really say all that much about this other than to agree that it’s daft and looks it. I just look at the shot before they take off -



    - and spend some time thinking about that until they get to the bridge!

    I'm sure I've missed something - so feel free to jog my memory, good or bad.



    Okay, so there you have it - my Unpopular Fandom Opinion. I'm not expecting to change your opinion; I'm just sharing mine.

Date: 2010-12-29 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] canterlevi.livejournal.com
You can't fool me, girl. I KNOW you want to lick that throat up and down like a popsicle on a hot summer day.

Date: 2010-12-29 11:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Never said I didn't! *g* It's the best kind of distraction from what happens next.

Date: 2010-12-29 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] canterlevi.livejournal.com
I would start behind the ears...

Date: 2010-12-30 01:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tweedymcgee.livejournal.com
Hrrrrrrawr.

*gulp*

Excuse me, I meant to say, I don't mind Voyage of the Damned either. Because --

*see pic above*

-- er, because, the S.S. Titanic falling on One is crack in the most awesome sense.

Also, love River Song.

Date: 2010-12-30 01:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
because, the S.S. Titanic falling on One is crack in the most awesome sense.

Isn't it just? And there is more pretty in the picspam I linked to :)

Date: 2010-12-30 04:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] killingfrost87.livejournal.com
I like it too!

Date: 2010-12-30 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Excellent! We're clearly forming a very select club *g*

Date: 2010-12-31 05:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] killingfrost87.livejournal.com
I'm all for it. Yay for the Voyage Crew!

Date: 2010-12-30 05:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] topaz-eyes.livejournal.com
brb, staring at teh pretty... *drools*

Okay, I'm back.

I like Voyage of the Damned. It's pretty, it's showy, it's got Ten in a tux. ;-D (I mean, WIN right there.) I like that it was consistent with what we knew of Ten. When Ten realized the passengers were all dead, he turned his attention to saving the Earth. Sketches though they were, I felt something for all the characters in VotD. And Astrid had agency from start to finish.

ACC was IMHO the Moff's answer to VotD. That was the comparison I kept coming back to. I knew I was supposed to feel something for Kazran and Abigail, but--meh. It felt--empty, somehow.

is that really any more cheesy than a ride around the skies in a one space-shark open sleigh?!

*snort* OTOH what is Doctor Who without some ham and cheese? ;-D

Date: 2010-12-30 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
what is Doctor Who without some ham and cheese?

Absolutely! And it's not as though it's NEVER used either of those ingredients, is it?

Sketches though they were, I felt something for all the characters in VotD.

Yes, that's it exactly. And regardless of whether you like Rusty's way of character depiction or not - the fact is that it's very skillful. Is in manipulative? Of course it is - but that's the way it's done in visual media, isn't it? Time is short and the audience needs to be able to latch on to these people while the story progreses.

knew I was supposed to feel something for Kazran and Abigail, but--meh. It felt--empty, somehow.

*nods* There are definite comparisons to be drawn, not least that ACC was also designed to be a fun "romp" fit for Christmas Day viewing.

As you and others have said here - the plot makes sense and the characterisation of the Doctor is consistent. And both those things count for a lot.

And then there's the tux.

Which, obviously, deserves its own bullet point!

Date: 2010-12-30 10:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] loreley-se.livejournal.com
Alonso! My favourite thing in VotD. Why, yes, I do have a soft spot for Mr. Tovey :-)

Date: 2010-12-30 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Yes - I'm sorry I left him out, but I was struggling to find something to say other than "Russell Tovey!"

Date: 2010-12-30 12:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vervet-monkey.livejournal.com
I really like this ep! Ascending to the bridge notwithstanding.

And with you on River too.

Date: 2010-12-30 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Yay! Another vote :-) But in all seriousness, I fail to see what's so BAD about VotD. It's not as if it really needs a plot when there's Ten in a Tux to be drooled over, but the plot does at least WORK and, as another commented has pointed out, is consistent and makes sense.

Date: 2010-12-30 02:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pujaemuss.livejournal.com
I liked the episode as well. The plot was internally consistent (which is not always a given for Dr Who) and more importantly, the solutions were clever, yet all the information was available to the viewer (see previous parentheses).

I did love the minor characters as well. Foon and husband were very well developed in a short space of time and their deaths were something that I cared about.

PJW

Date: 2010-12-30 04:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
ITA - you're absolutely right about the consistency of both plot and characterisation. I think, when it comes down to it, we can all forgive excesses if the rest of what we're watching works for us. Some people don't like Rusty's style and are therefore less inclined to be as forgiving as someone like me.

Date: 2010-12-30 03:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sue-denimme.livejournal.com
Well, I've got a soft spot for Girl in the Fireplace, I like Rose just fine, and I never found River Song annoying (though I might start doing so if she keeps turning up more than once a season). But I'm with you on everything else.

VOTD was, in a word, fun. I guess some people can't be content with that, but have to have every episode be some sort of ultimate paragon of weighty realistic drama. (Boy, are they watching the wrong show!)

Besides, Tennant in a tux Makes Everything Better. It's a law of the universe.

Date: 2010-12-30 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Oh, I don't hate GitF - it's just not one of my all-time faves.

I think you're right about the "fun" vs. "weighty" thing - and the thing is that DW is (and pretty much always has been) both at different times. And sometimes at the same time. But - like ACC - VotD was deliberately designed to be a fun romp for Christmas day (despite the high body count etc!) But as the previous commenter has said, it also makes sense in terms of what it told us about Ten (and what we already knew about him) and the plot held together and made sense. Okay, so that was pinched from another story, but it was still well executed!

I'm pretty sure that this - Tennant in a tux Makes Everything Better - needs to be put onto the statute books.

Date: 2010-12-30 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com
Oh man, I am soooo with you. Voyage of the Damned is hands down one of my favourite Christmas Specials.

David is SO PRETTY IN IT and I love the cast of supporting characters. And that line - about how if he could choose who lived and who died he'd be a monster - doesn't that sum up the entirety of Ten's character arc right there? I mean, how GENIUS is that line in light of what went down in Waters of Mars? RTD never let me down when it came to "getting" his characters.

And also I was really impressed with Kylie? She's not as big here in North America so I didn't really go into it with any concrete expectations, but I ended up liking her and Astrid a LOT. And you know what a shipper I am. :D

Date: 2010-12-30 06:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
That's why I put that line in bold text - it's so absolutely right and as you say, a perfect metaphor for Ten's arc.

I'm on the fence on Kylie. Didn't love her, didn't hate her, but I thought she did a decent job.

And I do, yes :-)

I think VotD is second on my "favourite specials" list - after TRB.

Date: 2010-12-30 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] felis-nocturna.livejournal.com
Hee, I rather like Ten's cheesy lines in this one. They fit and as you said, DT carries the whole thing with such conviction that I don't care about the rest. Add Mr. Copper, Wilf and the brilliance of the monster line, and I can live with this epi just fine, despite some other things I don't like.

Date: 2010-12-30 11:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
That's just it - there are always things we like and things we don't. I just can't see what's so bad abot VotD that isn't true of other episodes as well!
Edited Date: 2010-12-31 12:18 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-12-30 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fleurette.livejournal.com
I loved this episode too...including the cheese! LOL...I also count the Poseidon Adventure as one of my faves; Hmm, and I also didn't mind Tinkerbell!Doctor, nor do I put Girl In The Fireplace and Blink at the top of my list, though both are good episodes...don't hate River Song, so much as finding her a bit annoying, actually I like her much better than I did at first, but I still don't want her to be the Doctor's wife...and I never cared for Rose until she got all badass in Journey's End...even so, I only really like her with the clone, but that's another story...and actually, I liked that twist too, which I hear is another unpopular opinion. Oh, and I also like Love and Monsters...gosh darn it! :)

Date: 2010-12-31 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
I've got a soft spot for L&M, too (http://caz963.livejournal.com/325188.html) :-)

It's funny how some episodes seem to attract a pile of criticism - I don't think I'm being especially dim about this one when I say I can't see what's so dreadful about it!

If nothing else, they put David in a tux for an hour! What's not to love?!

Date: 2010-12-31 01:28 am (UTC)
captaintish: (Dr. Who -- 10th Doctor - goofy grin)
From: [personal profile] captaintish
I love it, too. (here via whodaily)

Date: 2010-12-31 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Excellent! (And welcome :-))

Date: 2010-12-31 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chloris67.livejournal.com
Awww. I like it too! Even the The Slow-Mo walk of cheese! He just looks so sexy all angry and determined and...did I mention sexy? I do completely agree that the neck!porn of takeoff helps tremendously with the actual ascension though. Actually I have to admit that it's the Ten-ness that gets me through the episode. Not just the sexy but the sheer force of personality. Ten is the center of all his episodes and that's exactly where I like him. (Even the ones where he's mostly absent. Then it's his absence that drives things.)

One thing I like about RTD is that even when he's writing archetypes he tries to give them something that is about the person in particular. He doesn't always succeed but at least he tries and you do tend to care even as he kills them off.

Date: 2010-12-31 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
You're right - of course this is a show about the Doctor (or it used to be :() so it's right that he's at the centre of things.

Ten, in particular is like a force of nature - and I'm sure part of that is down to David's being such a good actor and his own strength of personality. It's a stupidly obvious thing to say, but it wouldn't have been the same with anyone else.

I think you may have mentionted the sexy... once or twice :)

One thing I like about RTD is that even when he's writing archetypes he tries to give them something that is about the person in particular. He doesn't always succeed but at least he tries and you do tend to care even as he kills them off.

*nods vigorously.*

Date: 2010-12-31 02:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malinbe.livejournal.com
(via whodaily)

THANK YOU for voicing your unpopular opinion. I like Voyage of the Damned too! It's nice that it gets some love. I agree with your review, there are plenty of good moments that compensate for the cheesy, and really- isn't Christmas time for cheesy things? I think that's almost the only time of the year when you can quite safely get away with the cheesy.

Date: 2010-12-31 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Welcome! I'm really glad that this has enabled so many others to come out of the closet and smit they like this episode :-) To paraphrase Campbell Bain, We like VotD and we are PROUD!

*ahem*

Of course Christmas is a time for making with the Stilton - but as others here have said, even taking that into account, the whole thing does hang together well and Rusty does his usual deft job on creating secondary characters that we can actually care about.

Thanks for dropping in.
Edited Date: 2011-01-01 12:08 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-01-01 02:08 am (UTC)
kilodalton: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kilodalton
I like it too! It's my favorite Christmas special, I don't see why it gets flack. And I really like Astrid.

(and when you consider the circumstances under which he was working at the time of filming, it's even more incredible)

... is this the one where his mother died just prior to filming?

Date: 2011-01-01 12:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Yeah - I think she died during filming. Rusty tried to give him a couple of weeks off, but he wanted to work. Poor love.

But yeah, this is probably my second fave Xmas ep after TRB. Like I've said, I fail to see what's so awful about it. It's not as though DW doesn't often come with a big side-order of gorgonzola, is it?

Date: 2011-01-02 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petronia.livejournal.com
Do people really dislike VotD? I always thought it would be the one that'd be looked back on in twenty-five years as the epitome of the Rusty-era holiday extravaganza. Melted cheese and Kylie in a maid outfit and all. Because of the melted cheese and Kylie, when you get down to it.

Fandom should take a poll on what blonde singer/actress will be featured on the show next. :P

Date: 2011-01-03 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caz963.livejournal.com
Do people really dislike VotD?

I had the same reaction when I realised that it's not a particularly well-liked episode because I can't see what's so terrible about it!

Fandom should take a poll on what blonde singer/actress will be featured on the show next. :P

*sporfle*

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